Students university cheating

[Jdsk]

I've been looking at PhD courses and there's a lot of inter university centres of excellence that combine the excellence of all participant universities to create better output. Also, centres of excellence based at one institution. There's a big push to interact with industry to benefit all. One interesting PhD programme I read about makes outreach part of the course.

Yes, both of those interactions are very common. And many of the funding bodies give them enormous weight.

There's a lot of stereotyped nonsense above about ivory towers and isolated academia.

I wonder if people looking back at old systems aren't really looking at what is here and now?

You think?

; - )

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Fast forward to 4 years ago I commisioned research and testing at our local university. It was so easy with a fast pipeline to get to the right person to deal with. The good universities are very much embedded in wider society and industry.

I enjoy IMechE sessions in and around Oxford, although it's not my subject. Enormous interaction between the sectors, and way beyond simple recruitment days.

And when Milton Business Park was set up I was involved in a lot of incubator work with the University, local NHS organisations and start-ups.

If only there were a concrete example to illustrate this... perhaps something like a vaccine?

Jonathan

[PhilD28]

“I enjoy IMechE sessions in and around Oxford, although it's not my subject. Enormous interaction between the sectors, and way beyond simple recruitment days.”

Jonathan
[/quote]
Do I detect a frustrated inner engineer trying to get out?

[Jdsk]

Who mentioned bridges?

: - )

Nobutseriously the biggest group is automotive: we're right in the middle of the motorsport industry and we (still) have the BMW plant.

That led to a fascinating talk by Tony Purnell who has worked in both F1 and British Cycling. Really interesting to hear about the similarities and the differences.

A bit further north there's the Warwick Manufacturing Group, another extremely successful example of collaboration across the sectors.

Jonathan

[PhilD28]

Who mentioned bridges?

: - )

Jonathan

Touche!

[Jdsk]

Education should be more than about training and preperation for the world of work. It should also promote crital and analytical thinking. English and other language degrees are a perfect example of that.

I agree completely.

I see degree courses being about giving students a broader set of skills for managing analysis, thought processes, confidence, etc. not just teaching a budding engineer how to calculate stress in a steel beam. My own degrees were certainly not for the career I then followed but they did give me an excellent grounding in how to approach a problem, how to analyse, overcome challenges, being self-critical, etc.. In addition they gave me a interest that has been lifelong (so far) through which I've contributed on a voluntary and charitable basis (so my study has been used in the real world, though not to earn more money).

So choosing degree subjects again even knowing the career I'd then follow and I'd make the same choices even though other study subjects would probably make more sense from a career perspective.

And the latest "reform" to nonacademic education in England is already running into problems:

https://feweek.co.uk/2021/01/23/ofquals ... s-me-hope/
https://www.ft.com/content/24810033-c07 ... ab8076bf6f

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

"Latin to be taught in more state schools in bid to remove 'elitist' perception":
https://news.sky.com/story/latin-to-be- ... n-12369071

An interesting priority for our educational system.

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

After spending 20 years as a Professional Engineer I realised that I had missed out on being exposed to and appreciating Art so I started an OU Arts degree. Just the foundation course made me realise the value of studying 'the Arts'. In particular studying History and forensic critical thinking which was an eye opener. I believe students studying technical subjects would benefit from some sort of Arts based additional subject to sharpen thinking skills.
The A Level degree route doesnt deliver a person with the right skills for industry either. Only a student apprenticeship seems to but thats expensive for an employer to deliver.

Al

[Oldjohnw]

After spending 20 years as a Professional Engineer I realised that I had missed out on being exposed to and appreciating Art so I started an OU Arts degree. Just the foundation course made me realise the value of studying 'the Arts'. In particular studying History and forensic critical thinking which was an eye opener. I believe students studying technical subjects would benefit from some sort of Arts based additional subject to sharpen thinking skills.
The A Level degree route doesnt deliver a person with the right skills for industry either. Only a student apprenticeship seems to but thats expensive for an employer to deliver.

Al

Good to hear this from a professional engineer. Thanks.

When a country tries to go technical only it loses its soul. I so often heard amongst young people who had gone off the rails, “Who needs history/French/whatever?”. This sentiment in relation to Latin is all over twitters just now. People say unless I am going to be a lawyer. Lawyers don’t know latin:they know Latin phrases.

I know English grammar because I did Latin.

I support Mr Williamson on this item. Unfortunately, he has little credibility in the world of education. His case would be stronger if the more obvious educational needs such as literacy and numeracy were addressed. In many state comprehensive schools it is not possible to do separate sciences. They were dropped to enable better GCSE grades in the league tables. In my own local Academy it was impossible to go to medical school. If you wanted to be a doctor you had to study something else like biological sciences then after graduation go on to medical school.

This began prior to the Conservative government.

[Mike Sales]

I was made to waste many hours pretending to learn Latin, and could see no use or interest in it, so that I achieved a Grade 9 fail at O level after five years.
I like to think I have an extensive vocabulary, most of it was learned at first hand, from reading English.
Latin grammar is in some ways irrelevant. We do not change a word's ending with different pronouns, and word order does not correspond.
Other dead languages contributed to English, should we spend years on Old Norse? Or on some version of Freisian? Or perhaps on Early Middle English. All contributed to the way we speak.
There are languages (not descended from the Roman Empire) spoken by large numbers of living people which would have been more useful than Latin.
Teaching Latin is a snobbish remnant of the days when the Church dominated, and English was the vulgar tongue.
There were many hours of boredom in my schooling but Latin lessons were the worst.
I studied arts, and I wish now that time had been found to teach me much more science.
It would have helped me greatly in understanding important problems today, like Covid or Climate Change.

[Oldjohnw]

Two contrasting views! In one case a favourite subject. In another the most hated.

Utility is obviously not the only determinant. My wife, a modern languages teacher, did a degree in Latin after retirement.

[al_yrpal]

I studied Latin for two years, the result is.... Ceasar adsum jam forte or something?

If I was an educator I would insist that every student studied Dale Carnegie's great work. "How to win friends and influence people" which tells you so much about human nature and is essential reading for folk in so many walks of life. "The Millionaire next door"is also essential reading. Too much is taught only relating to Homers Oddessy and the square root of Pi IMV. No doubt educators would scoff at at such works. ...but how to live well is equally important as conventional subjects taught in academic institutions.

Al

[Mike Sales]

Two contrasting views! In one case a favourite subject. In another the most hated.

Utility is obviously not the only determinant. My wife, a modern languages teacher, did a degree in Latin after retirement.

Yes, I wanted to put the other case.

We can widen the field hugely if we include subjects we might learn for fun, well beyond languages. I learned Macrame in convalescence!

Funnily enough, I suspect I learned the meaning of more Latin words by deriving them second hand from their English descendants, than I learned directly.

[Oldjohnw]

I love etymology. I did a theology diploma which included some New Testament Greek. So I constantly have to check up on words and their development.

Education, whilst obviously important for employment either in meeting qualifications needs as well as specific knowledge, has value for its own sake. Loving to learn lifelong is fulfilling.

[Mike Sales]

I love etymology.

Me too.
I'm glad though that Greek had dropped out of the curriculum before my education.
Linnaean binomials are another route into a Latin vocabulary.