Students university cheating
- NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Students university cheating
Hi,
No surprise really I suppose
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... ity-exams/
"Entire student households are being caught cheating in online university exams, lawyers have warned as collusion becomes 'endemic'."
Reminds me of my student days when one particular occasion I was the only person to get the homework correct
I wasn't really that good it's just that the rest of them copied two others in the class.
One copied the other and then they both distributed the answers.
Fortunately or not I didn't have any mates
No surprise really I suppose
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... ity-exams/
"Entire student households are being caught cheating in online university exams, lawyers have warned as collusion becomes 'endemic'."
Reminds me of my student days when one particular occasion I was the only person to get the homework correct
I wasn't really that good it's just that the rest of them copied two others in the class.
One copied the other and then they both distributed the answers.
Fortunately or not I didn't have any mates
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Students university cheating
I guess cheating is endemic in human nature (present company excepted of course ). The only way to stop it is to make it too difficult for the cheater. But how??? Difficult enough when so much has to be done online - where Zoom is only a click away!
I know this is of less importance than exams, but I've dropped out of online bridge-playing, despite the game being one of my favourite activities pre-lockdown. Partly because I don't like the platform very much, but also partly because cheating is rife. At least, so I believe, though of course it's difficult to prove anything.
Some players are in denial about this, of course. Probably the same goes for exam candidates.
I know this is of less importance than exams, but I've dropped out of online bridge-playing, despite the game being one of my favourite activities pre-lockdown. Partly because I don't like the platform very much, but also partly because cheating is rife. At least, so I believe, though of course it's difficult to prove anything.
Some players are in denial about this, of course. Probably the same goes for exam candidates.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: Students university cheating
EBU page:661-Pete wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 9:07am I know this is of less importance than exams, but I've dropped out of online bridge-playing, despite the game being one of my favourite activities pre-lockdown. Partly because I don't like the platform very much, but also partly because cheating is rife. At least, so I believe, though of course it's difficult to prove anything.
https://www.ebu.co.uk/laws-and-ethics/o ... -processes
Was that a reference to BBO? Have you tried RealBridge? I have no particular preference.
I have no idea if others are cheating but the convenience of playing from home is obvious. But I do miss the 45 min ride to the club and back: that was quite a nice shape to a morning, afternoon or evening.
Jonathan
- simonineaston
- Posts: 8062
- Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: Students university cheating
All part of descent of civilisation, world-wide. The end game has begun. All know, sub or semi-consciously, that our time is up. No point in striving to be good or decent when all will be over soon. Grab what you can, while you can. This is how things are now. Oh Dear!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: Students university cheating
Putting the particular circumstances of the outbreak to one side...
I couldn't disagree more. I teach and examine in Universities as I have done for forty years, and I'm a member of a governing body. The fairness, transparency and accountability of examinations has never been higher.
The threats from cheating are way down the list of problems.
Jonathan
I couldn't disagree more. I teach and examine in Universities as I have done for forty years, and I'm a member of a governing body. The fairness, transparency and accountability of examinations has never been higher.
The threats from cheating are way down the list of problems.
Jonathan
- simonineaston
- Posts: 8062
- Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: Students university cheating
Excellent News!! Perhaps all this fin de siècle business I describe is, like the students' cheating story, just a load of old cobblers made up by desparate journos! Horray - we're all going to last forever !! Phew...The fairness, transparency and accountability of examinations has never been higher.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
-
- Posts: 9509
- Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm
Re: Students university cheating
That article looks like some solicitor is spinning the line that they're all at it so you're picking on my client that I'm defending from academic cheating!
It's anecdotal journalism and it's derived from an anonymous solicitor. Hmm! I detect a filler story on a slow news day. Possibly made up by the journo, possibly from a solicitor's ulterior motives.
Cheating undoubtedly goes on. I know academics marking work and referring a few to course directors for suspicious activity but it's not every set of coursework and not that common. Certainly not whole courses and housemates.
Off topic but did you hang around only with ppl on your course at university or from a wide range? I only ask because I mixed with ppl from other courses so had few opportunities to cheat. Certainly nobody in my houses at university could help me with my exams. Possibly the mathematicians with engineering maths. Two were first class (one through hard work the other through inate ability that needed no hard work but he did anyway)
It's anecdotal journalism and it's derived from an anonymous solicitor. Hmm! I detect a filler story on a slow news day. Possibly made up by the journo, possibly from a solicitor's ulterior motives.
Cheating undoubtedly goes on. I know academics marking work and referring a few to course directors for suspicious activity but it's not every set of coursework and not that common. Certainly not whole courses and housemates.
Off topic but did you hang around only with ppl on your course at university or from a wide range? I only ask because I mixed with ppl from other courses so had few opportunities to cheat. Certainly nobody in my houses at university could help me with my exams. Possibly the mathematicians with engineering maths. Two were first class (one through hard work the other through inate ability that needed no hard work but he did anyway)
Re: Students university cheating
Checking submitted text for plagiarism is very common, and some courses and institutions do it on all work of that type. Of course it's mostly automated nowadays.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 10:17amI know academics marking work and referring a few to course directors for suspicious activity but it's not every set of coursework and not that common. Certainly not whole courses and housemates.
Jonathan
Re: Students university cheating
Could well be.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 10:17am That article looks like some solicitor is spinning the line that they're all at it so you're picking on my client that I'm defending from academic cheating!
It's anecdotal journalism and it's derived from an anonymous solicitor. Hmm! I detect a filler story on a slow news day. Possibly made up by the journo, possibly from a solicitor's ulterior motives.
It is now common for students to take legal advice early in the process after a concern is raised. As you'd expect this raises the costs for everybody and slows the resolution.
Jonathan
- NATURAL ANKLING
- Posts: 13780
- Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
- Location: English Riviera
Re: Students university cheating
Hi,
I regard cheating a bit like opportunist thieves.
I also dislike the saying "they all do that/that's what everybody does "when referring to anything in general, when you suggest that, that method in wrong/incorrect.
It's now pretty obvious that people from upper education have similar morals to us on the street.
I've also noticed in life that many people are opportunist thieves, even the most unlikely ones.
Also remember reading sometime back that quite a high percent of people lie on their CVs?
I regard cheating a bit like opportunist thieves.
I also dislike the saying "they all do that/that's what everybody does "when referring to anything in general, when you suggest that, that method in wrong/incorrect.
It's now pretty obvious that people from upper education have similar morals to us on the street.
I've also noticed in life that many people are opportunist thieves, even the most unlikely ones.
Also remember reading sometime back that quite a high percent of people lie on their CVs?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Re: Students university cheating
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 10:42amAlso remember reading sometime back that quite a high percent of people lie on their CVs?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... -their-cvs
Jonathan
Re: Students university cheating
When I was doing my Distance Learning Astronomy degree (1st year courses) a few years back they stated very clearly in the course documentation that submitted work would be run through the software systems to detect plagiarism. Not "we might ..." but stated stronger more "we will ...".Jdsk wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 10:23amChecking submitted text for plagiarism is very common, and some courses and institutions do it on all work of that type. Of course it's mostly automated nowadays.Tangled Metal wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 10:17amI know academics marking work and referring a few to course directors for suspicious activity but it's not every set of coursework and not that common. Certainly not whole courses and housemates.
Jonathan
Ian
Re: Students university cheating
BBO. That's where my club - like most other EBU-affiliated clubs, have migrated to. Temporarily, I hope - though I have doubts. We also tried BCL at first but that didn't work out.
As I said I can't prove anything - but I did report one or two suspicious incidents (like an unbiddable 7nt which actually made). This was some years ago so not the cases cited in your link. As in competitive cycling, no-one loves a cheat!
Me too. Mine's a lovely 10-mile stretch almost all on quiet country lanes. Having a reason to do the ride is highly motivating.
I must confess that part of the reason for chucking it in - for the time being - is psychological. But any detail ought to be posted in the Health & Fitness forum....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: Students university cheating
Jdsk wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 11:23amNATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 10:42amAlso remember reading sometime back that quite a high percent of people lie on their CVs?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... -their-cvs
Jonathan
Of people who lied on their CVs, so the percentage is a percentage of the 10% who have lied.
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Re: Students university cheating
From my own family’s experience I would say that the above was broadly correct but let me also present an alternative view too.Jdsk wrote: ↑29 Jun 2021, 9:28am Putting the particular circumstances of the outbreak to one side...
I couldn't disagree more. I teach and examine in Universities as I have done for forty years, and I'm a member of a governing body. The fairness, transparency and accountability of examinations has never been higher.
The threats from cheating are way down the list of problems.
Jonathan
From the Student’s perspective many are pissed-off with group work and the (unfair) common marks schemes that adversely effect their own individual aggregate mark. Group work all too often ends up with one able student carrying others who are either lazy or unable and who would otherwise fail; it’s a dreadful abuse of some Students and a free ride for others.
Again, from a Student’s perspective, many Lecturers simply do not deliver the support and course content that has been paid for and may be examined against - that’s not changed over the decades but some other things have. Plagiarism temps some Students - and always has - but fairly effective measures are in place to combat it. Of course - similar to the general population - some Students are lazy and / or dishonest but some others will feel driven to cheat to pass at all.
Of course many (nearly all) Students are effectively forced to run up a massive personal debt and so ensuring a suitably good pass does (understandably) test morals ... when you stop and think about the really significant cost of going to University then cheating to ensure graduation becomes more understandable. In contrast it appears to me that some (surprisingly many) Universities get bums on seats and income secured by (deliberately) attracting, accepting and retaining those that really aren’t capable of thriving in a University environment. Those weaker Students would likely have thrived in the old Colleges of Further Education; however a severe dose of national stupidity has seen such places waste away and (via University study loans) load young people with debt that, despite their monthly ‘re-payments’, they typically never manage to pay off.
IMHO Universities have become businesses: you give them money and in exchange (trade) they’ll ‘support’ you and get you over the finish line with ‘some’ piece of paper. However, anything less than an upper second class degree now has quite limited employment value and only the most able Students gain the higher class degrees.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.