Infection control in schools

[thirdcrank]

In my ignorance, I had been assuming that "Freedom Day" currently scheduled for 19 July - but a movable feast, of course - would apply to schools but it seems this is not so and it may drag on into the next academic year. The future of today's children seems to be being sacrificed with no real sense of purpose.

[Jdsk]

I don't understand that. What are the harmful effects about which you're concerned, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

It's reported that a lot of children are out of school self-isolating. Those in school are expected to wear masks for part of the time.

[Jdsk]

Thanks.

Is your concern that their education will suffer when those measures are no longer necessary?

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

My layman's view is that if it's true that children are statistically unlikely to be adversely affected by covid, then the restrictions are already excessive. I do know that for what we think of as common infections - often lumped together as coughs and colds - schoolrooms are the places where they spread quickly, but that will always be the case. If a decision isn't taken that enough is enough, then this may trundle on forever. Not that long now to the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness when there will be even more potential for whole classes to be sent home for a fortnight at a time because somebody has a runny nose.

[rjb]

A local primary school has closed for a week due to covid. It was assumed initially some kids had hay fever, but in reality it was covid. The issue is that it spreads like wildfire in schools then the pupils bring it home and infect their parents and before you know it the outbreak is getting out of control. One of the teachers who had been double jabbed is seriously ill with it.
It's a difficult choice but I'm glad I don't have to make it.

[CliveyT]

Is the 'Freedom day' actually going to remove the need to self-isolate if you've been in contact with someone infected? I've just sort of assumed that would still continue for a while yet.
This issue with schools is that the whole bubble has to isolate if there's a case, which can include a lot who have had minimal contact with the virus.
Maybe the answer is for all the children to use a proximity app https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57643697

[Mick F]

Grandson at primary school is sent home due to another child (or the parent) having tested positive.
If the child/parent tests positive again, Mrs Mick F is going to have look after grandson asap whist our daughter (single parent) goes to work.

This must be repeated all over the country.

[[XAP]Bob]

My layman's view is that if it's true that children are statistically unlikely to be adversely affected by covid, then the restrictions are already excessive. I do know that for what we think of as common infections - often lumped together as coughs and colds - schoolrooms are the places where they spread quickly, but that will always be the case. If a decision isn't taken that enough is enough, then this may trundle on forever. Not that long now to the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness when there will be even more potential for whole classes to be sent home for a fortnight at a time because somebody has a runny nose.

Two problems with that:
- If the infection rips round schools as you suggest then the population infection rate will soar.
- You're assuming that there are no effects other than immediate hospitalisation or death. Long covid is potentially even more serious than any short term effects (obviously not more serious than death for the individual, but potentially more costly for society)

Classes being sent home for a fortnight really isn't as common as you seem to be making out. MiniBob's class hasn't been sent home once, neither has MicroBob's class.

In MiniBob's school they have had a mere handful of positive tests across the entire duration of being back, and no transmission within the school at all.

Yes, it does happen, but I don't think it's as common as it's made out to be. Additionally sending whole classes home is actually relatively innocuous. Schools are already set up for online teaching, so it's not as if they miss two weeks of school.

The concept of reduction of transmission should be happening everywhere, schools are no different. The removal of face masks recently is a pointless increase in the risk to all who are in schools or live with someone who is (whether student, teacher, ta or other support staff).

[thirdcrank]

I didn't make clear that I was talking about all the common infections every Winter. When this all started last year, nobody knew how it would develop so it was understandable and prudent to assume that schoolchildren would be "superspreaders" but this has apparently not been the case. One of the few mercies of this pandemic has been that the death rate among the young has been light when compared with older age groups. Of course, school staff are older than their pupils - some much older - but all have now reported to have had the chance to be vaccinated. As for the number of children missing school, I can only depend on published data. With things like mask wearing in school, I know I personally find communication wearing one for a few minutes at a time very difficult so it's hard to see it's any easier for schoolchildren.

Above all, my OP was triggered by a feeling that this is the result of drift, rather than clear decisionmaking.

[Psamathe]

My layman's view is that if it's true that children are statistically unlikely to be adversely affected by covid, then the restrictions are already excessive.....

I see it as far more complex than just because children are "unlikely to be adversely affected by covid" then they should be free of NPIs. e.g. do children catch long-Covid? Do children with Covid but not badly affected not spread it to others and on to parents, families, etc..

It sounds like there is a lot of things Gov. could have done that reports I've seen say they haven't e.g. adequate computing and internet at home for those affected, ventilation in classrooms, testing by schools (if you were on a zero hours contract and financially stretched would you stay at home and no income because a lateral flow test said your child was positive or would you just not do the test?), etc.

But Gavin is acting n mobile phones - thank god he's addressing the really big issues ...

And then the question none of our politicians seem to be considering: Why has Covid stopped mutating to new variants? (or are new variants being created as we speak and might that introduce some additional considerations?)

Ian

[Psamathe]

My layman's view is that if it's true that children are statistically unlikely to be adversely affected by covid, then the restrictions are already excessive. I do know that for what we think of as common infections - often lumped together as coughs and colds - schoolrooms are the places where they spread quickly, but that will always be the case. If a decision isn't taken that enough is enough, then this may trundle on forever. Not that long now to the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness when there will be even more potential for whole classes to be sent home for a fortnight at a time because somebody has a runny nose.

Two problems with that:
- If the infection rips round schools as you suggest then the population infection rate will soar.
.....

Which also means lot more virus around and more virus increases the likelihood of new variants and most variants that we'll spot will probably be better at evading immunity. Low virus levels reduces the likelihood of new variants.

Ian

[mjr]

I didn't make clear that I was talking about all the common infections every Winter. When this all started last year, nobody knew how it would develop so it was understandable and prudent to assume that schoolchildren would be "superspreaders" but this has apparently not been the case.

Hasn't it? Most of the workplace cases I've heard about seem to have probably come from schoolchildren infecting parents, rather than in-workplace transmission (the infected people at a workplace do not work together, or even on the same shift in some cases) but I know I've not seen a national or larger overview of this topic.

[thirdcrank]

As I've explained, in the absence of specific info, I was assuming that talk of dropping all covid-related restrictions on 19 July would mean just that. There's now been a lot of media attention to this and I can't imagine it's been triggered by my post so I believe others, including some who might be better-informed than me who have been surprised too.

[RickH]

Assuming it to be a typical spread age wise, if not in intensity, the heat map of infection rates in Bolton show a marked change in the ages most infected over the course of the pandemic.

A lot of the shift from the older age groups will be because of the effects of vaccination but I do wonder if the current variant is relatively more transmissible in the younger population than the original variant (just as different strains of flu can adversely affect different age groups differently).

Bolton COVID-19 infection heatmap by age