Racism & prejudice in the wake of Italy's win (football)

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Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: And so it begins....

Post by Oldjohnw »

Hellhound wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 12:55pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 8:51am I grew up in the 1950s in an area where black people (who were called niggers) and Asian people (who were called Pakis, wherever they were from) were disliked. They were thought of as inferior, shouldn’t be here and were accused of the same things as today: filling the hospitals, taking the jobs and living in the houses which should have been for “us”.
That view was, I believe, pretty general there. Now it would be in small, but vocal, pockets.
That still happens.I don't think it ever really went away.
Hopefully not widespread as it was then. My relatives including my parents were part of it. Teachers were part of it.
John
ANTONISH
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Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: And so it begins....

Post by ANTONISH »

Oldjohnw wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 1:23pm
Hellhound wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 12:55pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 8:51am I grew up in the 1950s in an area where black people (who were called niggers) and Asian people (who were called Pakis, wherever they were from) were disliked. They were thought of as inferior, shouldn’t be here and were accused of the same things as today: filling the hospitals, taking the jobs and living in the houses which should have been for “us”.
That view was, I believe, pretty general there. Now it would be in small, but vocal, pockets.
That still happens.I don't think it ever really went away.
Hopefully not widespread as it was then. My relatives including my parents were part of it. Teachers were part of it.
I remember in my primary school about 1950
Our teacher showed us a book that was vaguely geographical - there was an illustration of a group of Africans standing outside a hut.
The Africans were smiling broadly.
"Yes I'm sure they are very nice" said my teacher - "but I wouldn't want one to touch me"
Chorus of " ooh no miss" from little girls
Prejudice started so early is hard to eradicate.
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: And so it begins....

Post by pwa »

Racial prejudice is deeply ingrained and slow to change, but it has been on the decline during my lifetime. When I was a kid, it was the norm. Now it is more exceptional and therefore shocking. But the slow rate of progress means that we will have to live with some prejudice around for decades to come. It won't go away quickly or easily.

I work alongside someone who is from an ethnic minority, and visibly so, and not once in the five or six years I have known them have I heard any racial comment from another colleague. That is real progress.
Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: And so it begins....

Post by Oldjohnw »

Just last week the 80+ year old builder from the village who came to fix a gutter got chattier about the football.

He said, “Ridiculous giving all those darkies a go at penalties”. Pure Johnsonian. I gently challenged him.

I suspect that attitude is around a bit in some rural communities where there are few of any other than white skins, especially among the very old. An old aunt of mine said about 5 years ago, “I have nothing against Pakistanis. They make very good shopkeepers.”

There are those who dismiss concern about these things as ‘wokeness’.
John
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: And so it begins....

Post by [XAP]Bob »

merseymouth wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 11:30am Well, I supposed my BMW did make me more than a bit "Pushy"? It was an Isetta 300, the broken doughnuts meant you did have to push it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . MM
I did find that when driving a white van people would just stop at mini roundabouts, no point in waiting for people who clearly aren't moving, so I went. No doubt reinforcing their stereotype of white van man pushing out, but really just a case of going when no-one else was.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Racism & prejudice in the wake of Italy's win (football)

Post by Ben@Forest »

Interesting article on R4 Today programme today. A journalist has been tracking the trolls who made the racist comments online. A significant number were from abroad and not English (l think the journo said most but can't swear to that) though of course there are people abroad who are also English.

The journo specifically mentioned Russia, but had also tracked down one offender who apologised for his actions - we heard a clip - he is Saudi Arabian. So English England fans are/were being tarred with rather too broad a brush.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

An independent Review of events surrounding the UEFA Euro 2020 Final

Post by Jdsk »

NB date.

"An independent Review of events surrounding the UEFA Euro 2020 Final ‘Euro Sunday’ at Wembley":
https://www.thefa.com/news/2021/dec/03/ ... l-20210312

The events of Sunday 11 July 2021 (Euro Sunday) at Wembley Stadium were a ‘near miss’. I am clear that we were close to fatalities and/or life-changing injuries for some, potentially many, in attendance. That this should happen anywhere in 21st century Britain is a source of concern. That it should happen at our national stadium, and on the day of our biggest game of football for 55 years is a source of national shame.

I want to be very clear from the outset that responsibility for that risk to human life lies with the individuals without tickets – nearly all men, it has to be said – who attacked the stadium, successfully or otherwise. The drunkenness, drug taking, irresponsibility, criminality, and abuse of innocent people – including staff, families, and disabled ticket holders – was shocking and intolerable. I hope the police and other authorities continue to prosecute as many of the perpetrators as possible and the courts and football authorities apply the toughest possible punishments.

Jonathan
Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: And so it begins....

Post by Tangled Metal »

Oldjohnw wrote: 18 Jul 2021, 7:22am Just last week the 80+ year old builder from the village who came to fix a gutter got chattier about the football.

He said, “Ridiculous giving all those darkies a go at penalties”. Pure Johnsonian. I gently challenged him.

I suspect that attitude is around a bit in some rural communities where there are few of any other than white skins, especially among the very old. An old aunt of mine said about 5 years ago, “I have nothing against Pakistanis. They make very good shopkeepers.”

There are those who dismiss concern about these things as ‘wokeness’.
My grandad was from a town or city, he called then darkies and was racist. Whilst there were very few BAME in my rural village the racism was not as obvious as the towns and cities I visited family in. It's people who are racist or not, it's in them or not. Lessened or increased through contact with people not like you. At primary school a kid used the word Paki I used it outside school for a black man and learnt what it meant. I've not used it since.

I was about 7yo and didn't know what it meant only that it was used for people who had darker skin even than me after the summer holidays (I went positively tanned under the school holidays sun). When explained to me I did not see why you'd see people differently because of skin colour so I didn't want to use such terms. I occasionally had to leave the room when my grandad was talking about darkies.

I got that from my parents especially my dad who was a Conservative politically but highly enlightened when it came to anti racism. I've only lived in cities while at university.
Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Racism & prejudice in the wake of Italy's win (football)

Post by Tangled Metal »

There's been a lot of social cohesion initiatives over the years in Lancashire towns. A friend from 20 or so years ago worked in an outdoor centre for LCC LEA. They did a lot of groups from white and Asian communities in Lancashire towns. Kids turn up segregated, completely mix together/ make friends with kids from the other community and finally segregate as soon as the first of the parents turn up to collect them.

My mate said it was frustrating. The kids had no racism in them and only saw other kids to play with. The issue is their parents are divided and the kids follow their parents. He saw as the kids got older they were becoming more like their parents. Divided and racist communities having nothing to do with the others if they could help it.

A TV documentary stuck trackers in two taxis in Blackburn, one white, the other Asian. Apart from certain town centre locations such as shopping centre, train station, main roads, etc their tracks never crossed paths. It was a telling observation of division and self imposed segregation.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Racism & prejudice in the wake of Italy's win (football)

Post by pwa »

I grew up on the edge of a Lancashire mill town, and my childhood had no brown faces in it. Not in school, not in the street outside my home, not in the nearby park. But the town did and still does have a substantial south Asian population. I just never met them. They lived miles from where I lived and our paths rarely crossed, except in the town centre. I never thought about them. I didn't grow up racist though, so all was not lost. By my late teens I had formed the firm view that every human being deserves a chance to show who they are, as an individual, and I have never strayed from that since.

I suppose there was a time when, in an innocent way, I did use the term "Paki shop", meaning a grocery / convenience store run by a south Asian family. If everybody had used the term in the way that I did, it would not have been a problem. "Paki", as I used it, was not derogatory, it was short for Pakistani, so might have been inaccurate in some instances. The trouble was, other people were using the word "Paki" in a bad way, so it became an unacceptable word and I soon stopped using it. But when I hear very old people use the word these days, I do wonder whether they are being racist (which some are) or whether they are using it as I did all those years back. Whether they just didn't get the memo.
francovendee
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Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Racism & prejudice in the wake of Italy's win (football)

Post by francovendee »

Prejudice is in many of us. Maybe in everyone over something in others we don't align with.
Many of our friends, mostly the men, say things that are clearly racist. These are often kind, gentle people who wouldn't consider they were racist.
I don't challenge their remarks as It won't change them and I value their friendship in other ways.
The older Vendeens are very racist and quite open about it.
The worse are the hunters, but they are a rough lot anyway.
The local bar owner is a Moroccan and he seems to ignore it. Most of his customers are younger and they seem not to worry about his origins.
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: And so it begins....

Post by pwa »

Tangled Metal wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 7:28pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 18 Jul 2021, 7:22am Just last week the 80+ year old builder from the village who came to fix a gutter got chattier about the football.

He said, “Ridiculous giving all those darkies a go at penalties”. Pure Johnsonian. I gently challenged him.

I suspect that attitude is around a bit in some rural communities where there are few of any other than white skins, especially among the very old. An old aunt of mine said about 5 years ago, “I have nothing against Pakistanis. They make very good shopkeepers.”

There are those who dismiss concern about these things as ‘wokeness’.
My grandad was from a town or city, he called then darkies and was racist. Whilst there were very few BAME in my rural village the racism was not as obvious as the towns and cities I visited family in. It's people who are racist or not, it's in them or not. Lessened or increased through contact with people not like you. At primary school a kid used the word Paki I used it outside school for a black man and learnt what it meant. I've not used it since.

I was about 7yo and didn't know what it meant only that it was used for people who had darker skin even than me after the summer holidays (I went positively tanned under the school holidays sun). When explained to me I did not see why you'd see people differently because of skin colour so I didn't want to use such terms. I occasionally had to leave the room when my grandad was talking about darkies.

I got that from my parents especially my dad who was a Conservative politically but highly enlightened when it came to anti racism. I've only lived in cities while at university.
A neighbour, who I had thought okay, once went on about anotther neighbour with a nuisance barking dog. He called the neighbour "Darkie", which bothered me until I realised the bloke's surname must be Dark! I had a bit of a laugh at the misunderstanding. The barking dog has since got a lot quieter.

Overt racism among the very old still exists, of course, but the more benign racism is more common. The idea that Asians make good shopkeepers, for example. I generally ignore the latter.
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