Space

[reohn2]

Bob
First we've got to get there,wherever there might be*
Then we've got to establish a base there.
Then we have to sustain living there.
Then we have to breed there for humanity to exist there.
Personally I can't see that happening YVMV.

Would it not be better to positively reorganise ourselves on this planet first before even thinking of living on another one?

*OK we got to Mars but our travel and exploration has only been very rudimentary.

[pwa]

There are a few good reasons for venturing into space, the most obvious being immediately useful things such as weather satellites. Less obviously useful is exploration of our solar system, which is highly unlikely to produce benefits to most of our own planet's nine billion people. It might be interesting to know more about the geology of Mars, but how will that knowledge ever benefit me or my kids? And as for people living there, why would anyone want to do that? How bad would things have to get here on Earth to make it worthwhile considering an uninhabitable planet as an alternative? A place where you would have to live inside all the time. How many would get to go there? Why would the rest of us pay for it? Bonkers is the word that comes to mind.

[Mike Sales]

Bob
First we've got to get there,wherever there might be*
Then we've got to establish a base there.
Then we have to sustain living there.
Then we have to breed there for humanity to exist there.

Even if this were possible, it would not do much for those left behind.

When Ford and Arthur find themselves aboard a colonising spaceship in "The Hitchhiker's Guide", they discover that the putative colonists in cryogenic pods are all hairdressers and telephone sanitizers. when these get to the new planet they are as feeble as you might expect.
It seems that the idea was to get rid of the drones. Perhaps Musk's Mayflower will prove to be similar.

[Psamathe]

...
Then we have to breed there for humanity to exist there.
...

An important aspect. I suspect many reading popular press imaging we'll start some big migration like the Sci-Fi "Colony Ships". Where reality is it's far too expensive to take such numbers into orbit and even across the solar system. Just enough for adequate genetic diversity and then breed there (which remnds me of Dr. Strangelove).

....
Would it not be better to positively reorganise ourselves on this planet first before even thinking of living on another one?
....

I don't see then two goals as mutually exclusive. I think we need to do both (or at least try the Mars one but succeed on the "reorganise ourselves on this planet".

Ian

[reohn2]

Musical interlude anyone:- https://youtu.be/p4zR9r9olOg

[Psamathe]

There are a few good reasons for venturing into space, the most obvious being immediately useful things such as weather satellites. Less obviously useful is exploration of our solar system, which is highly unlikely to produce benefits to most of our own planet's nine billion people. It might be interesting to know more about the geology of Mars, but how will that knowledge ever benefit me or my kids? And as for people living there, why would anyone want to do that? How bad would things have to get here on Earth to make it worthwhile considering an uninhabitable planet as an alternative? A place where you would have to live inside all the time. How many would get to go there? Why would the rest of us pay for it? Bonkers is the word that comes to mind.

For me it's not about this or next or even the generation beyond that. I see it as long long term goals. 150 years ago talk jetting round the world would seem daft. I accept I'm something of a dreamer but I do believe travel outside our solar system will be practical at some point in the future (be that loopholes to "cut corners" or in hibernation) - if we constrain our dreams to what we can achieve now we might as well give-up now as the human race is doing no more than going through the motions waiting for some avoidable disaster. So we take one step at a time.

Ian

[Mike Sales]

if we constrain our dreams to what we can achieve now we might as well give-up now as the human race is doing no more than going through the motions waiting for some avoidable disaster. So we take one step at a time.

Ian

The first step needs to be to deal with the Climate Catastrophe.
We should be dreaming, or rather making realistic plans, to avoid that disaster.

[[XAP]Bob]

The space company is working with a Canadian startup Geometric Energy Corporation (GEC) to launch the satellite on a Falcon 9 rocket, which will release the advertising platform before the rocket reaches the moon.

Well that’s <i>[rude word removed]</i> then - why would the rocket reach the moon.

Followed back to source…
It’s a cubesat with a selfie stick to stream to YouTube…

SpaceX have nothing more to do with it than being a launch provider.

Otherwise known as "Space Debris"?

Ian

Otherwise known as a very short lived orbital object. In this case I would describe it as debris even on the ground

[pwa]

There are a few good reasons for venturing into space, the most obvious being immediately useful things such as weather satellites. Less obviously useful is exploration of our solar system, which is highly unlikely to produce benefits to most of our own planet's nine billion people. It might be interesting to know more about the geology of Mars, but how will that knowledge ever benefit me or my kids? And as for people living there, why would anyone want to do that? How bad would things have to get here on Earth to make it worthwhile considering an uninhabitable planet as an alternative? A place where you would have to live inside all the time. How many would get to go there? Why would the rest of us pay for it? Bonkers is the word that comes to mind.

For me it's not about this or next or even the generation beyond that. I see it as long long term goals. 150 years ago talk jetting round the world would seem daft. I accept I'm something of a dreamer but I do believe travel outside our solar system will be practical at some point in the future (be that loopholes to "cut corners" or in hibernation) - if we constrain our dreams to what we can achieve now we might as well give-up now as the human race is doing no more than going through the motions waiting for some avoidable disaster. So we take one step at a time.

Ian

And if you, as an individual, got to some distant planet, would that be like some sort of enlightenment? Would you suddenly be fulfilled? If so, why? What, on that distant planet, would be better than you could find on Earth? I think it is a case of "the grass is always greener....", when the reality is that if you cannot find peace and fulfilment here, you aren't going to find it there either. The thing you seek is within you, not up there. Travelling through space for the sake of it is just us chasing our own tails. It is futile and a bit sad.

[Psamathe]

There are a few good reasons for venturing into space, the most obvious being immediately useful things such as weather satellites. Less obviously useful is exploration of our solar system, which is highly unlikely to produce benefits to most of our own planet's nine billion people. It might be interesting to know more about the geology of Mars, but how will that knowledge ever benefit me or my kids? And as for people living there, why would anyone want to do that? How bad would things have to get here on Earth to make it worthwhile considering an uninhabitable planet as an alternative? A place where you would have to live inside all the time. How many would get to go there? Why would the rest of us pay for it? Bonkers is the word that comes to mind.

For me it's not about this or next or even the generation beyond that. I see it as long long term goals. 150 years ago talk jetting round the world would seem daft. I accept I'm something of a dreamer but I do believe travel outside our solar system will be practical at some point in the future (be that loopholes to "cut corners" or in hibernation) - if we constrain our dreams to what we can achieve now we might as well give-up now as the human race is doing no more than going through the motions waiting for some avoidable disaster. So we take one step at a time.

Ian

And if you, as an individual, got to some distant planet, would that be like some sort of enlightenment? Would you suddenly be fulfilled? If so, why? What, on that distant planet, would be better than you could find on Earth? I think it is a case of "the grass is always greener....", when the reality is that if you cannot find peace and fulfilment here, you aren't going to find it there either. The thing you seek is within you, not up there. Travelling through space for the sake of it is just us chasing our own tails. It is futile and a bit sad.

I appreciate your point but my feelings differ. To me following your points, why would I ever leave Norfolk as if I can't find peace and fulfilment here I'm not going to find in Suffolk or Cambridgeshire. Travelling (e.g. cycle touring) through Netherlands serves what purpose beyond chasing my own tails - maybe futile & sad.

Yet I enjoy exploring new places, new experiences, learning new things, handling challenges, etc.. I would not want to make such travels seeking somewhere else better.

But I can also appreciate your viewpoint, different people seek different things.

Ian

[reohn2]

The first step needs to be to deal with the Climate Catastrophe.
We should be dreaming, or rather making realistic plans, to avoid that disaster.

Agreed,let's put our own house in order before we go wrecking another.

[Psamathe]

Seems that Branson's flight didn't go quite as well as planned to the point where the FAA have currently grounded the aircraft

Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic spaceship grounded for federal investigation
Officials at the FAA are looking into why the craft veered out of its approved airspace on its descent back to Earth after the July launch with Mr Branson as part of the crew.
...
The investigation was launched because the pilots of the craft had been alerted to red and yellow warning lights during their rocket-powered flight into space after being dropped from its mothership, according to The New Yorker.

The lights indicated that the spaceplane was not climbing vertically enough to free-glide back to earth with enough momentum to land and it is claimed the craft veered out of its Air Traffic Control airspace as it returned.

And sources told the magazine that the flight, which ultimately landed safely after reaching an altitude of 50 miles above the Earth’s surface, should have been aborted after the warning lights went off in the cockpit.
...

Ian

[Jules59]

I read that the ISS is cracking up and may have to be abandoned sooner than projected.

I think we have a very long way to go before any long term colonisation of space is possible, let alone wanted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/space/iss ... 11557.html

[Psamathe]

Knock-on impacts of Covid treatments

COVID-19 Treatments Require so Much Oxygen it Could Delay Rocket Launches
...
It’s common knowledge at this point that liquid oxygen (LOX) is an important tool for combating severe symptoms of Covid-19. Most patients admitted to the hospital with the virus need oxygen directly pumped into the lungs, usually supplied by LOX suppliers such as AirGas or other commercial gas companies. Oxygen is also used in high quantities in a completely different application – rocket engines.
...
Chilled oxygen is a necessary propellant chemical for all the leading launch firms, including SpaceX, Virgin Orbit, and ULA. But it’s becoming harder and harder to obtain the liquid form of the most abundant element in the Earth’s crust. That’s in no small part because the same process used to create oxygen for rocket fuel can also create oxygen used for Covid patients. And as Richard Craig, the vice president of technical and regulatory affairs for the Compressed Gas Association, put it: “People come first.”
...
Florida is one of the hardest-hit states in the current resurgence of the pandemic. LOX normally isn’t transported over far distances – most is created about 200-300 miles from where it is distributed. It is possible to transport the liquid further. However, another confounding factor impacts the intricate LOX supply chain – truck drivers.

LOX is highly flammable and explosive, so drivers that ferry it between production and consumption sites such as rocket pads have to be even more highly trained than a standard commercial truck driver. Right now, there is a shortage of commercial truckers of all stripes and a particular shortage of those qualified to haul liquid oxygen. While some suppliers are, in fact, able to ship oxygen supplies farther than their usual customer base, that takes up valuable time from the truckers who would otherwise be able to deliver it to closer locations.
...

Ian

[[XAP]Bob]

SpaceX are liquefying their own at Boca Chica (or will be very soon).

But yes, people come first - but something else comes second…