Space

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Psamathe
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Re: Space

Post by Psamathe »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 9:19pm ....
None of that changes the fact that Musk is certainly acting towards a larger goal, Beardy much less so, Baldy not at all.....
I would agree that Musk is working towards a larger goal, I believe several goals at least one of which I disagree with - his flooding the sky with his Starlink satellites doing massive damage to astronomy and our research capabilities. But then he isn't the only one, even the UK Gov. is part owner of a company doing the same (although they thought they were buying into a GPS system!)...

Ian
pete75
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Re: Space

Post by pete75 »

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Space

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Psamathe wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 9:53pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 9:19pm ....
None of that changes the fact that Musk is certainly acting towards a larger goal, Beardy much less so, Baldy not at all.....
I would agree that Musk is working towards a larger goal, I believe several goals at least one of which I disagree with - his flooding the sky with his Starlink satellites doing massive damage to astronomy and our research capabilities. But then he isn't the only one, even the UK Gov. is part owner of a company doing the same (although they thought they were buying into a GPS system!)...

Ian

No - they just didn't listen to those who said that satellites need to be designed for the task they accomplish.

Starlink is doing some good, but it does hurt ground based astronomy - despite the efforts they are making (and they are making efforts) to reduce glare.
I suspect it will be around for a fair while.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Space

Post by Tangled Metal »

Just curious, how much of Bezos' and other billionaires' personal wealth is down to not paying taxes? He's such a wealthy person that I suspect it he had paid taxes on earnings he'd still be extremely wealthy. Avoided taxation probably accounts for little of his wealth. I bet other billionaires' are in ac similar situation.

Not sure of what relevance that has but just speculating about the proportion of people's dislike of Bezos that is down to tax avoidance, his wealth, not spending on philanthropy, his company's treatment of workers or anything else about him that's not to like.
Psamathe
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Re: Space

Post by Psamathe »

Tangled Metal wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 11:06pm Just curious, how much of Bezos' and other billionaires' personal wealth is down to not paying taxes? He's such a wealthy person that I suspect it he had paid taxes on earnings he'd still be extremely wealthy. Avoided taxation probably accounts for little of his wealth. I bet other billionaires' are in ac similar situation.

Not sure of what relevance that has but just speculating about the proportion of people's dislike of Bezos that is down to tax avoidance, his wealth, not spending on philanthropy, his company's treatment of workers or anything else about him that's not to like.
I suspect it is an incredibility complex calculation with no "answers" as it would likely include moral aspects. But even on a tax code basis it gets complex as I suspect much of the net worth of these mega wealthy is from the value of their companies rather than their direct wage. So whatever e.g. Bezos pays in income tax he's not paying anything on the value of his share of Amazon until he starts selling it. And so would Amazon be worth as much as it is if it was paying tax everywhere it traded rather than moving profits to tax havens? And then if Amazon's worth drops because it's paying tax, as Bezos' worth is largely due to Amazon's worth so Bezos would see a drop in his wealth ...

But I'm no tax expert so others please do correct my misunderstandings.

Ian
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Space

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Well, given that his wealth is primarily the result of the increase in "value" of Amazon stock...

And that Amazon pays absolutely sod all tax - which has a very significant impact on the stock price...

If they actually paid a sensible amount of tax then his wealth would still be ridiculous, because Amazon have specialised in scale, and done quite well at it.
But the world would be much richer.

Additionally he could use a measly 1/2 a percent of his wealth and give every Amazon employee $2,000....

But they (and it must be noted that we hear of the bad instances, not the good ones) end up carrying bottles so they don't have to visit the loo...
I know a warehouse manager who works for them and simply doesn't recognise many of the issues which are widely screamed about on the interwebnet-tubes (that might in part be a UK/US difference).


Any system which doesn't see a significant amount of the personal income (and at that level an increase in wealth *is* effectively income) headed towards social welfare projects (i.e. the welfare state, assuming we still have one in a few years) is not fit for purpose.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
reohn2
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Re: Space

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 9:19pm
reohn2 wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 7:24pm For those who give credence to the egotistical hyper rich tax dodging morons whose jollies include five minute space journeys on the pretext of furtherment of humanity:- https://youtu.be/JZkXwrtxO5I
Sorry - I fail to see the relevance of that video.
You don't?
That surprises me.
I agree with the gentleman that the current societal model is completely snafu, fubar
So we agree on that,but that is what it's all about,multi billionaires playing in space for their own entertainment on the pretext that they're helping humanity somehow,yeah right Jeff...
None of that changes the fact that Musk is certainly acting towards a larger goal, Beardy much less so, Baldy not at all.

It's a different problem to those which the Gates' foundation is tackling, but that's ok.
It needs governments worldwide and business to work toward a common goal for the betterment of the earth rather than the capitalist goal which is to make evermore money by selling any amount of tripe that comes to hand at the expence of the earth.
The present system is fubar as you say.Time to change the system is long over due but when those capitalists own governments I can only see more space jollies for those government owners.
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reohn2
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Re: Space

Post by reohn2 »

Tic tac UFOs:-
https://youtu.be/rO_M0hLlJ-Q
https://youtu.be/5HInaJxFxWs

What do people think?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Space

Post by [XAP]Bob »

reohn2 wrote: 7 Aug 2021, 11:15am
None of that changes the fact that Musk is certainly acting towards a larger goal, Beardy much less so, Baldy not at all.

It's a different problem to those which the Gates' foundation is tackling, but that's ok.
It needs governments worldwide and business to work toward a common goal for the betterment of the earth rather than the capitalist goal which is to make evermore money by selling any amount of tripe that comes to hand at the expence of the earth.
The present system is fubar as you say.Time to change the system is long over due but when those capitalists own governments I can only see more space jollies for those government owners.
Nah - governments have never been the only way to further humanity. Philanthropy has a long and chequered history.

Baldy is running for profit, Musk is running to make humanity interplanetary, and that’s a goal that is driving SpaceX to put NASA’s short term funding model to shame, and completely embarrassing the existing rocket industry incumbents.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
reohn2
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Re: Space

Post by reohn2 »

Bob
The way the world's going we'll have wrecked the place before we get anwhere near interplanetary travel,we're a sick blight on the earth.
We're a very clever species without doubt.
But wise?
Definitely not.
Last edited by reohn2 on 9 Aug 2021, 9:23am, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Stradageek
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Re: Space

Post by Stradageek »

Worrying observation: I haven't followed/contributed to this thread for two weeks - for two weeks the TV has had blanket Olympics coverage.

Have I succumbed to 'Cake and Circus'?

To remedy this:

Why do the worlds billionaires worry so much about losing money to the tax man?

a) With their incredible skills and work ethic they can easily make back the difference
b) If they can't then 'Trickle Down' economics will make sure they get richer anyway
c) If all else fails they can always live the Life of Riley sponging off our incredibly generous benefits system
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Space

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Well, I think we're a lot closer to interplanetary than most people think we are.
I am not on Elon time, but whilst he is pushing for Elon time I think we'll get there relatively soon.

The comment was made without any attribution of wisdom to us as a species by the way. It's merely a comparison between the three billionaire f(o)under rocket companies (lumping both virgin ones together for obvious reasons).

Baldy does claim to have a plan to have self sustaining orbital stations, but I struggle to see him achieving anything of the sort in his lifetime at the rate that BO are (not) moving.

I'm not aware that Beardy has any such lofty goals.

Even Rocket Labs' Peter Beck is focussed on Venus (not as a habitable space, but for scientific interest)

Elon is focussed on Mars, as a planetary colony - that is a goal that's beyond the efforts of any nation since the 1960s
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Psamathe
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Re: Space

Post by Psamathe »

Well ... it's from The Independent ... and it's not 1 April ... so who is playing the fool? (or is it really serious?)
[quote]https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/spacex-satellite-ads-elon-musk-spacex-gec-b1899373.html[/quote] wrote:SpaceX to launch billboard satellite that plays ads and hopes ‘people don’t do something inappropriate’
Elon Musk’s SpaceX will put a huge advertising satellite in the sky where companies can display logos and other promoted content.

The space company is working with a Canadian startup Geometric Energy Corporation (GEC) to launch the satellite on a Falcon 9 rocket, which will release the advertising platform before the rocket reaches the moon.

Samuel Reid, CEO and co-founder of GEC, told Business Insider that the satellite would be released in 2022. People and companies would buy tokens to locate and design a pixel on the screen.

Five tokens affecting the pixels are purchasable: Beta and Rho for the advert’s placement on the screen, Gamma and Kappa for the colour and brightness, and XI for its duration. These tokens will be purchasable via cryptocurrencies.

"I’m trying to achieve something that can democratize access to space and allow for decentralized participation," Mr Reid said. "Hopefully, people don’t waste money on something inappropriate, insulting or offensive.
...
The satellite will "obtain lunar-spatial intelligence from sensors and cameras", according to CNN. "This is not a joke," Reid said, but refused to comment further.
...
Ian
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Space

Post by [XAP]Bob »

The space company is working with a Canadian startup Geometric Energy Corporation (GEC) to launch the satellite on a Falcon 9 rocket, which will release the advertising platform before the rocket reaches the moon.

Well that’s <i>[rude word removed]</i> then - why would the rocket reach the moon.

Followed back to source…
It’s a cubesat with a selfie stick to stream to YouTube…

SpaceX have nothing more to do with it than being a launch provider.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Psamathe
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Re: Space

Post by Psamathe »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 9 Aug 2021, 2:09pm
The space company is working with a Canadian startup Geometric Energy Corporation (GEC) to launch the satellite on a Falcon 9 rocket, which will release the advertising platform before the rocket reaches the moon.

Well that’s <i>[rude word removed]</i> then - why would the rocket reach the moon.

Followed back to source…
It’s a cubesat with a selfie stick to stream to YouTube…

SpaceX have nothing more to do with it than being a launch provider.
Otherwise known as "Space Debris"?

Ian
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