Borders

[Mick F]

Walking yesterday along the English bank of the River Tamar, there's a small island on a bend in the river.
It got me wondering whether the island was in Cornwall or England.

Just been looking at maps.
I started with the modern OS map. The bend is where Adventure Activities is written.
The border is shown up the centre-line of the river and the island isn't there at that scale.

Going to a bigger scale, you can see it, but the border isn't marked.

Going onto the 1907 map of the area, it shows the border on the English bank, meaning that the island is Cornish as is the whole river!

Which is true?
Is the river Cornish?

There must be many borders between counties and even countries that are debatable.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Is the island big enough to build a beach hut?
You could always erect a hut on it and then wait for 10 years and claim it for yourself
Or maybe if it's not too big a small dog house.
Have you got a satnav picture?

[[XAP]Bob]

Walking yesterday along the English bank of the River Tamar, there's a small island on a bend in the river.
It got me wondering whether the island was in Cornwall or England.

Just been looking at maps.
I started with the modern OS map. The bend is where Adventure Activities is written.
The border is shown up the centre-line of the river and the island isn't there at that scale.Modern OS.png

Going to a bigger scale, you can see it, but the border isn't marked.

Screen Shot 2021-07-20 at 11.54.43.png

Going onto the 1907 map of the area, it shows the border on the English bank, meaning that the island is Cornish as is the whole river!

1907 Map.png

Which is true?
Is the river Cornish?

There must be many borders between counties and even countries that are debatable.

There are plenty of country borders with similar issues... what is the long term course of the river - I imagine that being in granite it's probably fairly stable, but that's not guaranteed everywhere.

[matt_twam_asi]

It looks like it's about 50/50 according to OS BoundaryLine data.

The orange&blue line is the OS boundary line, the light blue lines are Land Registry Property Boundaries - useful for calibrating the position of the aerial image.

[Oldjohnw]

I often walk up to a border. It is over 2000’ high and straggly and unclear. There is an occasional fence. I suspect that at this level it was negotiated between landowners.

[Maillot Rouge]

Cornwall is in England so it is in England regardless?

[Jdsk]

Cornwall is in England so it is in England regardless?

Yes.

Unfortunately there are at least three different debates here.

One is the repeated assertion that Cornwall isn't part of England. That feels to me like trolling. Whether it should be or not is quite different...

Another is whether that particular location is in Cornwall or not.

And then there's whether and how borders are defined. That one has involved a lot of people killing each other. Fortunately not so many nowadays.

Jonathan

[Maillot Rouge]

Very strange.

[thirdcrank]

trolling

Heaven forfend! It's stimulating healthy discussion.

[Jdsk]

trolling

Heaven forfend! It's stimulating healthy discussion.

That might be the case for the second head, but I haven't seen any for the first, which is what you're quoting. In full that was:

One is the repeated assertion that Cornwall isn't part of England. That feels to me like trolling. Whether it should be or not is quite different...

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

I cry "pax!"

[Mick F]

I'm a Lancastrian by ancestry and history, but born in Wales.
Lived in Cornwall for most of my life, but you ask the Cornish if Cornwall is in England!
That's besides the point here. I jest with this England/Cornwall thing, and anyone who regularly reads my posts, knows this very well indeed.
End of discussion on this.

As for the border, it depends on the map.
Why?

Gunnislake Weir (which is the start of the tidal river) the border follows the centre down to Saltash. It's the river upstream from Gunnislake that I'm asking about.

There's another island just down from Horsebridge. Submerged when the river is full, but there in full view this time of year.
Which county/country does it belong to?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.55165 ... 312!8i6656

[philvantwo]

Did you have a swim Mick F? There's a similar island upstream from Arley on the River Seven, not much water at the moment so all the water goes to the left of the island into a channel about 10ft wide, couldn't touch the bottom so it was pretty deep. Anyway it was great fun jumping in and being swept down with the current!

[Mick F]

Yep, been swimming in the river in the past, plus canoed for some of it over the many weirs ........ and fell out too!
That island just down from Horsebridge in my photo, I've stood on whilst hauling my canoe back on the rope.
I should have placed a flag on it and claimed it for Wales.