It's official - cycling up hills is now easy ;-)

[kylecycler]

Has anyone who believes it's no harder got an explanation for the popularity of E-Bikes?

Maybe 'no harder' is a bit of an exaggeration, right enough. Would you settle for 'just as doable'?

Also - I find this baffling and quite depressing - has anyone got an explanation for the popularity of E-Bikes in the Netherlands?

In the Netherlands, e-bikes have become such a mainstay that they accounted for approximately half of all bicycle sales in 2020.

According to a new report by industry experts RAI Vereniging and Bovag, over half a million of the 1.1 million bicycles sold in the Netherlands in 2020 were electric bicycles.

https://electrek.co/2021/03/18/the-coun ... n-tell-us/

The article kinda sorta explains it - a faster long commute with less sweating, even without hills - but it still seems sad.

[Jdsk]

The article kinda sorta explains it - a faster long commute with less sweating, even without hills - but it still seems sad.

Why "sad"?

AFAIK the published studies show that people riding eBikes are getting more exercise than would otherwise be the case.

Jonathan

[PH]

Has anyone who believes it's no harder got an explanation for the popularity of E-Bikes?

Maybe 'no harder' is a bit of an exaggeration, right enough. Would you settle for 'just as doable'?

It's closer
5% incline roughly halves the speed for the same wattage. So it's just as doable to travel half the distance.
I don't know anyone who would ride the same distance on a flattish or hilly route and not consider the hillier one harder.

[Jdsk]

"Harder" has too many meanings for it to be useful in this debate... power output, peak force on the pedal, tolerable duration...

Jonathan

[PH]

Also - I find this baffling and quite depressing - has anyone got an explanation for the popularity of E-Bikes in the Netherlands?

Wind
Though no doubt there's a video to be made proving it's no harder to ride into a headwind

[kylecycler]

The article kinda sorta explains it - a faster long commute with less sweating, even without hills - but it still seems sad.

Why "sad"?

AFAIK the published studies show that people riding eBikes are getting more exercise than would otherwise be the case.

Jonathan

That's true, right enough - one of the group I ride with has health issues, used to have to walk up some of the hills but is now an awful lot fitter than she ever was before because she can go anywhere and not worry about getting stuck, so her mileage has probably at least doubled. She does annoy everyone, however, by swearing blind that she hardly ever if at all uses her electric assist even though she flees past even the strongest climbers up hills - she's lying through her teeth, maybe even to herself, but whatever makes her happy.

Still think it's sad to buy an e-bike if it's not strictly necessary or justifiable, though. I think a lot of the satisfaction I get out of cycling is getting the most out of myself for the least expense, and e-bikes don't conform to that. Might need to get one some day, though, just to keep cycling.

[kylecycler]

Also - I find this baffling and quite depressing - has anyone got an explanation for the popularity of E-Bikes in the Netherlands?

Wind
Though no doubt there's a video to be made proving it's no harder to ride into a headwind

Oh yeah I forgot about that - you can't see the wind! Might even be a video discussing whether it's harder to ride into a headwind than uphill!

[mjr]

Also - I find this baffling and quite depressing - has anyone got an explanation for the popularity of E-Bikes in the Netherlands?

Wind
Though no doubt there's a video to be made proving it's no harder to ride into a headwind

Even without a headwind, it takes a flipping age for an ordinary bimbler to get a fully-loaded Dutch bike up over 15mph on the slightest climb or bad surface, so the e-bike assistance can really help you move more further faster and maybe allow even more bike trips instead of car ones.

[mjr]

Yeah, Cycling About has jumped the shark. Maybe it's to try to keep income coming in, as suggested earlier, or maybe it's something else.

Oh yeah I forgot about that - you can't see the wind! Might even be a video discussing whether it's harder to ride into a headwind than uphill!

Of course it's harder: every hill has a summit but a headwind can last the whole journey.

It's actually a slight advantage being in hilly country when riding mostly into a headwind because there comes a point, not too steep, when hills are steep enough to give you some shelter from the wind on the way up and enough assistance to allow freewheeling on the way down. On the flat, you could be pedalling hard all day, which can surprise some cyclists who've not enjoyed crossing reclaimed land before: there's very little shelter from wind, rain or sun.

[Mick F]

Are you claiming that all hundred miles rides are harder than all ten mile rides?

People think that hills are hard, when in reality they just have inappropriate equipment...

Spot on.

I had "inappropriate equipment" in the early 1981 with a Raleigh Esquire. Alu mudguards, reasonable frame, straight 'bars, twist-grip3sp SA. Took that bike with me out to the Middle East on deployment HMS Ambuscade.
Christmas that year, we were in Mombassa and the wives and girlfriends and families came out whilst the ship was in maintenance.
Me and Mrs Mick F rode into Mombassa city on it - she on the saddle, me pedalling standing up and steering!
Photos somewhere.

Any road up, on the way out to the East, we called in at Gib.
Guess what I did?
I got on my bike and rode it up to the top of the Rock.
Standard Raleigh, 3sp SA. Can't remember the chainset of the sprocket, but you get the idea.
Hardest for me, was coming back down.

Some of the hills are STEEP there. 30% or maybe steeper.
If anyone has been there, they can vouch for what I say.

Uphill from the town past the casino and up to St Michael's Cave, then left up a hill you wouldn't believe.
I did it, but I was in my 20s.

[[XAP]Bob]

The article kinda sorta explains it - a faster long commute with less sweating, even without hills - but it still seems sad.

Why "sad"?

AFAIK the published studies show that people riding eBikes are getting more exercise than would otherwise be the case.

Jonathan

That's true, right enough - one of the group I ride with has health issues, used to have to walk up some of the hills but is now an awful lot fitter than she ever was before because she can go anywhere and not worry about getting stuck, so her mileage has probably at least doubled. She does annoy everyone, however, by swearing blind that she hardly ever if at all uses her electric assist even though she flees past even the strongest climbers up hills - she's lying through her teeth, maybe even to herself, but whatever makes her happy.

Still think it's sad to buy an e-bike if it's not strictly necessary or justifiable, though. I think a lot of the satisfaction I get out of cycling is getting the most out of myself for the least expense, and e-bikes don't conform to that. Might need to get one some day, though, just to keep cycling.

Whereas for the Dutch a fiets is a mode of transport, it’s just how to get from a to b…

Why wouldn’t you make it slightly easier?

[kylecycler]

Whereas for the Dutch a fiets is a mode of transport, it’s just how to get from a to b…

Why wouldn’t you make it slightly easier?

It's a mode of transport for me too - haven't run a car for twelve years now or used public transport for five. I've been eligible for a bus pass for five years but I've never applied for it. I get offered lifts to the start of club rides but don't even like that - if I can't go under my own steam I'd rather not go.

Suppose I'm just funny that way - independent in every sense.

That still doesn't answer your question, though. I just see Dutchies as resilient, tough types who propel themselves and don't rely on being propelled, but maybe that's a bit too simplistic (or idealistic) and naïve.

[peterb]

Let me assure you that even with an ebike I'm still putting in a lot of effort to climb hills. Have to - I can't get off and push as it's even more painful to walk up them. After over 60 years riding the pure kind I think I'm allowed a bit of help.

[kylecycler]

Let me assure you that even with an ebike I'm still putting in a lot of effort to climb hills. Have to - I can't get off and push as it's even more painful to walk up them. After over 60 years riding the pure kind I think I'm allowed a bit of help.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not knocking you or anyone else - quite sure you've been more of a real proper cyclist than I'll ever be and you still are. And the same will apply to me as you anyway before all that long, I'm just not quite there yet.

I'll never make it to 60 years riding, though (there was a 30-year gap in the middle that I deeply regret), even with an e-bike - well done!

[thirdcrank]

A thread like this is similar to political spin - use a bit of ambiguity and you can argue what you like.
As Scotty is apparently misquoted in the Startrekkin song, "Ye cannae change the laws of physics...Jim"