World Heritage Landscape Gwynedd.

[Tangled Metal]

Slag heap has become a general term for heaps of uneconomic materials from mining or iron / steel sector in England. Technically not correct and doesn't distinguish between what it is made up of. Terminology isn't important if you think they're all the same and without merit as part of mining history.

BTW if you like hunting for minerals it's worth knowing the difference if you want to find anything.

Then in Scotland they're called Bings I believe.

[Jdsk]

Technically not correct and doesn't distinguish between what it is made up of.

As above: slag being the technical term for the waste from smelting doesn't make other uses "not correct". Especially after the first few hundred years of usage.

Jonathan

[reohn2]

Slate mining doesn't create slag heaps they're spoil heaps. They're made of broken slates of no commercial value as such just broken stones. In the case of North Wales you have one of the most significant mining areas of the UK. It was the area that roofed the world. How many very special buildings, houses, factories, churches, parliaments, courts got Welsh slate around the world. What you see as slag (correctly spoil) heaps I see as part of a significant, former industrial landscape that's a record of the ingenuity, technology and creativity in solving problems. There's a lot to see and take on if you're able to see past what i assume you see only as destruction.

I understand the significance of industry,particularly mining history because I worked and lived it!
It doesn't mean we have to leave it's detrus everywhere we go to remind us!

As to Avebury and other henges and stone circles, what exactly is it that you think is so,significant? You say it's a record of religion. Or are they astronomical markers? Do we really know for sure? You see value because they're a religious site? A religion we don't know anything about for certain and without any practitioners? Doesn't that just make them a load of old stones left by a peoples from a long time ago? Sure there's ingenuity getting them there but to modern world there's no certainties over what the significance to the builders. I appreciate them but I also see them as part of human development.

The difference is that our ancestors deliberatly built them as sacred sites for what,we're not exactly sure granted,but we can make reasonable assumptions,and yes they're a part of human development,it's that development that makes them worth keeping,not so spoil/slag/detritus heaps,heaps that are waste that others not you or me,have to live with.

Slate mining is another part. To me mining history is more interesting. There's real, human stories there that have been recorded. Tragedy and success. Life and death too. Even cultural significance. Old mining towns still have traditions from the mining times despite no mines being in operation for quite some time.
Everywhere there's been mining in recent history there's been remnants of mining but also traditions indeed cultural history too. Same with mill towns and other industrial communities. To write them off because you don't like what's left in the archaeological record seems to me like pitting one type of our human history against another purely because of personal aesthetics.

Personally I've been down old lead mines in North Yorkshire that were opened up hundreds of years ago. I've seen evidence of families hand drilling left in the rock. Behind those remnants there's written historical records. Father working with elder son hitting the drill with sledge hammers in confined spaces. With younger sons learning the trade by quarter turning the drill bit between each strike. Get that wrong and the kid got hit and lost hands or probably died. Human stories, human histories.

Then the rock removed from Coniston copper mines if ore containing often got wheeled out in carts by another family member to their women who pre sorted the ore out from the waste, which then earns them money. It's fascinating. History!

Goldscope mine, AIUI German miners brought in by the monarch to extract the gold. Actually a very good deposit at the time. Made a lot for the king.

Before now I've mentioned tales of graphite mined up near Keswick area. There's a lot more with that than spoil heaps. Stories of smuggling, foreign agents, material that was considered strategically important and a multitude of uses. Hidden smuggler hideouts, infamous smugglers, smuggling routes, etc. Graphite and illicit spirits all part of smuggling history in the lakes.

Of course not everyone appreciates mining history. I don't really like mill history or historic houses. Or agricultural history. I don't write off agricultural history because they've cut down the woods that once dominated the land. Personally I find ancient woodland more interesting than farmland. I think it would be wrong to write off a historical field system because I prefer woodland though.

You talk as if I'm in the business of hiding and destroying the recent industial history and as if I don't know what I talking about,I had two people die in my arms in mining accidents/incidents and being the first aider on site have bandaged up and treated miners with various injuries some quite bad and broken bones some of whom needed stretchering out of the pit.
So I know what I'm talking about.

It's still no reason to leave huge tips of mining detritus lying about the countryside calling it 'part of our heritage',which are nothing but an eyesore.
It's a bit like leaving entire battlefields untouched because it's part of our heritage,and yes I do know some battlefield areas are sometimes left or rebuild for illustration and education.
I'm all for not forgetting our history of UK industry,a lot can be learned from it and mining museums have great value.
But leaving the remnants of a past mining age in it's entireity is an eyesore we can do without,if we'd left Wigan's coal mines and their slag heaps as "part of the archeological record" the place would look like a tip,which parts of it did until quite recently,I know I grew up in the midst of it.
I don't see the one's who profitted most from those industries living amongst slag/spoil tips or if any do they are far and few between,mostly they live in other piles of stately stones with carefully manicured gardens.

There's huge difference between working everyday in that industry and just visiting it for and hour or two.
As there's a huge difference between prehistoric stone circles purposely built for whatever very important ceremonies our ancestors carrried out and revered and piles of waste material left over from the good stuff the mine owners came for and carted off.

YVMV mine won't

EDITED for Clarity and typos.

[reohn2]

I reckon that 5% of rural houses in the North Pennines are within sight of spoil heaps (is that the same as slag heaps?) . They are everywhere and of course many older houses are close to where mining for lead (and silver and zinc and fluorspar) were, so they are bound to be close. And plenty of those houses are sought after when they come onto the market.

But the owners haven't bought those houses to look in wonderment out of their windows at the mining detirus,I'm betting those houses aren't far from nice rambling areas or handy for their work.
I've yet to see a house up for sale with "lovely aspect to coal industry slag heaps" in the description

[Oldjohnw]

It's still no reason to leave huge tips of mining detritus lying about the countryside calling it 'part of our heritage',which is nothing but an eyesore.
It's a bit like leaving entire battlefields untouched because it's part of our heritage,and yes I do know parts are sometimes left or rebuild for illustration.
I'm all for not forgetting our history of UK industry,a lot can be learned from it and mining museums have great value.
But to leave the remnants of a past mining age in it's entireity is an eyesore we can do without,if we'd left Wigan's coal mines and their slag heaps as "part of the archeological record" the place would look like a tip,which parts of it did until quite recently,I know I grew up in the midst of it.
I don't see the one's who profitted most from those industries living amongst slag/spoil tips or if any do those people are far and few between,mostly they live in other piles of stately stones with carefully manicured gardens.

I certainly have not suggested for one minute these things I have emboldened: detritus lying around the countryside, leaving remnants …in its entirety, living amongst slag heaps. I grew up near the NE coalfields and don’t miss them at all. A number of well made exhibitions, museums and some country parks on slag heaps (we used to call them pit heaps) with good visitor centres have been built and are excellent. I simply wrote that retail centres are not all good for the environment either. I think that there is little controversy in the suggestion that excessive consumption is part of our problem and many retail shopping cathedrals encourage that.

[pwa]

Even if we wanted to plaster over the workings at Bethesda, how would we do it? The site is vast and it would take decades of transporting huge quantities of soil over local roads to make any impact on it. It isn't simple spoil heaps that can be levelled out and given a skin of locally available soil. It isn't powdery either. It is largely sizeable rocks. Smaller stuff is commonly used as an attractive garden paving / mulch material, a bit like gravel. It is a world away from coal spoil, which is a dirty material with little to be said in its favour. I view the North Wales slate sites as interesting and awe inspiring, and when you consider that hiding the scars would cost billions and leave us with something less interesting, I'd save that money and use it for something else. Time will soften the slate spoil because pioneer species will creep in. Slate sites abandoned a long time ago (unlike those at the Penrhyn quarry) have already started going back to nature. The oldest are often woodland, but with the added interest of a landscape once modified by man. I would not have made the same defence of coal spoil, which is not something I would want kept.

Here is someone who has taken an interest in abandoned slate workings.
https://www.colinnichollsphotography.co ... y-in-wales

[reohn2]

I certainly have not suggested for one minute these things I have emboldened: detritus lying around the countryside, leaving remnants …in its entirety, living amongst slag heaps.

You haven't condemned them either.

I grew up near the NE coalfields and don’t miss them at all

We're agreed on that then.

A number of well made exhibitions, museums and some country parks on slag heaps (we used to call them pit heaps) with good visitor centres have been built and are excellent

I'm sure the they are and I have no complaints in the regard.
Such heaps were known as pit rucks where I lived

I simply wrote that retail centres are not all good for the environment either. I think that there is little controversy in the suggestion that excessive consumption is part of our problem and many retail shopping cathedrals encourage that.

Agreed,and now like the slag heaps such places will fall into disrepair and the people who own them will have made their money out of them will most likely put up a sign saying "condemend" and simply walk away with a bit of a dent in their otherwise lucrative venture.
I wonder if some future generation looking at them say "and this was our retail indurty phase"

[Oldjohnw]

I don't know why I should condemn something which I never mentioned in the first place! I've never actually condemned murder, bank robbery or arson on these pages, either.

[reohn2]

I don't know why I should condemn something which I never mentioned in the first place!

You seemed to be in favour of leaving the eyesore slate heaps of Wales as they stand,If I'm mistaken about thepat then I apologise.

[Oldjohnw]

I don't know why I should condemn something which I never mentioned in the first place!

You seemed to be in favour of leaving the eyesore slate heaps of Wales as they stand,If I'm mistaken about thepat then I apologise.

No need to apologize. The is thread was about a very specific situation which I have defended.

[reohn2]

No need to apologize. The is thread was about a very specific situation which I have defended.

Which we disagree on as I have the opposite view.

[Mike Sales]

The idea that the mountains were beautiful as they were before slate quarrying is relatively recent. Befoe the Romantics they were seen as repulsive, barren and unproductive.
Now we see natural cliffs and scree as beautiful and awe inspiring, but not the man made ones.
Of course their present naked state is also the result of mankind's economic activity. The original climax vegetation would have been trees or scrub. There are still trees on cliffs inaccessible to the "woolly maggots", unless the activities of rock climbers have destroyed them.
There are no "unspoilt" mountains in Britain.
Recent opinion is that it would be better to remove the sheep and allow the hills to regain their place in the ecosystem, and also regulate flooding.
There are those who enjoy the old quarries. The road below is part of the pump storage scheme "Electric Mountain." The rock is part of the Dinorwig Quarry.

[Oldjohnw]

No need to apologize. The is thread was about a very specific situation which I have defended.

Which we disagree on as I have the opposite view.

Well, the world would be a strange place if we all agreed. Your points are valid but I have a slightly different take.

Pax.

[reohn2]

Even if we wanted to plaster over the workings at Bethesda, how would we do it? The site is vast and it would take decades of transporting huge quantities of soil over local roads to make any impact on it. It isn't simple spoil heaps that can be levelled out and given a skin of locally available soil. It isn't powdery either. It is largely sizeable rocks. Smaller stuff is commonly used as an attractive garden paving / mulch material, a bit like gravel. It is a world away from coal spoil, which is a dirty material with little to be said in its favour. I view the North Wales slate sites as interesting and awe inspiring, and when you consider that hiding the scars would cost billions and leave us with something less interesting, I'd save that money and use it for something else. Time will soften the slate spoil because pioneer species will creep in. Slate sites abandoned a long time ago (unlike those at the Penrhyn quarry) have already started going back to nature. The oldest are often woodland, but with the added interest of a landscape once modified by man. I would not have made the same defence of coal spoil, which is not something I would want kept.

Plaster over,interesting term,hmmm.
I take your point about cost,but what cost Afganistan,the Iraq war(not to mention the human cost)just two of the many of the wars around the world the UK sticks it's unwanted nose in.
What cost Trident?
Yes,it is a world away from pit slag heaps a some of the slate is worth using for many things.
As for time softening the these sites,it hasn't happened yet in over a hundred years.
And many other abominations we're told we need to remain safe!

The rejuvination of the Bethesda I can't comment on but it could at least look far better than it does presently with carting it all away,and I'm betting a lot of the slate could be used for other purposes such as you've mentioned

Here is someone who has taken an interest in abandoned slate workings.
https://www.colinnichollsphotography.co ... y-in-wales

The photography is first class,the industrial subject matter serves to prove my point.

[Ben@Forest]

I reckon that 5% of rural houses in the North Pennines are within sight of spoil heaps (is that the same as slag heaps?) . They are everywhere and of course many older houses are close to where mining for lead (and silver and zinc and fluorspar) were, so they are bound to be close. And plenty of those houses are sought after when they come onto the market.

But the owners haven't bought those houses to look in wonderment out of their windows at the mining detirus,I'm betting those houses aren't far from nice rambling areas or handy for their work.
I've yet to see a house up for sale with "lovely aspect to coal industry slag heaps" in the description

I think people are aware or made aware of what they are looking at fairly quickly. Some of the landforms are so weird they are obviously not natural (though I think for the casual observer they just don't look - it looks like green hillocks). So yes, in many ways it's far more picturesque, but if you understand the heritage you can see the scars of hushing, mining and processing everywhere. And coal was mined here too, though not on the hugely industrial scale of the Durham and Northumberland coalfields to the east.

The below is a reasonably typical representation - the stonework for a causeway, the grassed spoil heaps, but often the spoil heaps are only patchily green because the metals levels are still too toxic for vegetation to grow. You can also see a house on the ridge. Also though this isn't my photo I know where it is and the mining continued till around the 1980s - which means there's a fair bit of modern detritus which wasn't cleaned up and a fair few houses around it.

https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gate ... ceID=19191