Electric everything.

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biketips666
Posts: 217
Joined: 19 Jun 2021, 7:17pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by biketips666 »

Jules59 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:07pm How user-serviceable are BEVs ?

Cars are pretty reliable in my opinion and once my cars are out of warranty I've tended to do my own servicing, which saves loads on labour charges (and makes sure its actually done).

I'm told BEVs are cheaper to service because the BEV parts don't need servicing like an ICE (eg oil change , cambelt, spark plugs etc).
So servicing will largely be about things common to both ICE and BEVs, - brakes, suspension, 12v electrical stuff etc
The figure I heard was that an ICE (internal combustion engine) has about 200 moving parts, whereas the motor in a BEV (battery electric vehicle) has 6. Maybe not precise, but something like that.

You missed several components from your list of service items in an ICE. A more complete list is:
Oil
Oil filter
Timing belt
Air filter
Spark plugs
Sump plug washer
Fuel filter.
Gearbox oil (if automatic)
Coolant
Anti-freeze
Points and solenoid (at least back in the good old days)

And that's just the items which are part of standard service routines (or at least those I can think of off the top of my head).

When you take into account the other parts of the power plant that aren't service items, but which might fail:
Oil pump
Water pump
Coolant thermostat
Gear box
Clutch
Fuel pump
Fuel injectors
Exhaust
Oil cooler
ATF cooler
Gaskets, many and various.
Turbocharger
(and maybe others)

The simplicity of a BEV becomes even more attractive.

I used to do a lot of servicing on my cars. Not any more. I had bought a new brake caliper and was ready to fit it. But the car was going in for a service and MOT anyway, and the garage said - "we can fit that for £20". I'm too old and have enough money not to be farting around on my drive.

The thing is that a lot of the service items that are common to ICEs and BEVs are things I wouldn't really want to tackle. Suspension and steering, for instance. So for me there's not much left to do.

Reports on various Leaf forums are of very low service costs, usually ~£100.
Jules59 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:07pm But I wonder would the need to be part of some rental or hire scheme (due to the high cost buying a BEV, and maybe later, of replacing a battery) prohibit owner-servicing and lock people into franchise-only servicing - which of course the main dealerships would love and would cost a lot more.
I think franchise-only servicing was stopped several years ago, wasn't it?
Jules59 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:07pmFor example JLR main dealers charge about £1000 (or more) to change a cambelt and water pump - the actual parts required are less than £100
I don't think BEVs have a cambelt or a water pump, so that problem is solved.

I don't view garages as my mortal enemy, always out to get every last drop of my life blood. I took my last car to a main dealer, as they were the only specialist round here. The service was excellent, and they were quite willing to be flexible, for instance fitting a used subframe that I had sourced myself. They often did little jobs for nothing, and never left me stuck, either fixing a fault immediately, or lending me a car to keep me mobile. I had none of shoddy and expensive "main dealer" treatment that people complain about. Before that I took my previous cars, Volvos, to a very well established and experienced independent Volvo specialist, who were just as good.

Of course if you can save yourself some money by doing your own servicing, then go right ahead. It's not for me.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

biketips666 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:52pmI think franchise-only servicing was stopped several years ago, wasn't it?
The EU is still trying to remove barriers.

biketips666 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:52pm I don't think BEVs have a cambelt or a water pump, so that problem is solved.
Tesla batteries are cooled by liquid.

Jonathan
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Mick F »

biketips666 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 10:16am ............ Jeez.
Did you have to say that?

I was pointing out that this thread is regarding "electric everything" and you talked about how economical a modern house can be.

I don't disagree ...................... but you didn't need to complain by using that word.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
Posts: 24627
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

biketips666 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:52pm
Jules59 wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 1:07pm How user-serviceable are BEVs ?
The simplicity of a BEV becomes even more attractive.
Yes, lots of parts that don't have to be serviced because they just aren't there.

Plus lower wear on friction brakes.

But higher loads on the suspension.

Batteries and EV motors and high current controllers are never going to be easily DIY serviceable. But secondary markets will probably develop.

And of course LEDs last longer than their predecessors.

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 10:25am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 10:22amSo every electric vehicle has been producing more percentage of carbon.
Therein lies the biggest conundrum IMV.
"More percentage of carbon" than what... than it would have been if there had been more wind, or than if it had been an ICE vehicle?

Thanks

Jonathan
Yes to question one.
No to question two (probably, depending on factors)

And to question three, more than it's consumption is often cracked up to be.
If more than half it's power source is gas and some others into the mix.

I am not against electric cars in the least.
But I am just against some rather smug assumtions about their extraordinary green credentials.
Pointing out that they still need, for the most part, a fair slice of carbon producing fuel to run, in most cases.
A wieghty Tesla against a small ICE is what interests me as a comparison.

I see EVs as a reasonable urban solution, less convinced about rural tasking.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 4 Aug 2021, 3:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
Posts: 24627
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4659
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 2:59pm Thanks

Jonathan
Pleasure.
Do you think it a reasonable position?

Actually I thought it pretty obvious.
Do you keep a moderator in your top pocket?
Stevek76
Posts: 2085
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Stevek76 »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 2:57pm I see EVs as a reasonable urban solution, less convinced about rural tasking.
I'd see the opposite. The urban solution is far less car use altogether.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
Oldjohnw
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Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Oldjohnw »

Interesting but unsurprising re electric cargo bikes v diesels v electric vans.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... SApp_Other
John
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Excellent niche for electric cargo bikes.

Sheffield:
http://s-cargo.co.uk

Oxford:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/ ... _zez_pilot

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24627
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

"Joe Biden is setting a goal for half of all new US vehicle sales to be electric by 2030 while also tightening pollution standards for cars and trucks, in a barrage of action aimed at reducing the largest source of planet-heating gases in America."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ate-crisis

It was 2% last year...

Jonathan
Stevek76
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Stevek76 »

Baby steps I guess. They'll need to sort their electricity supply out for that to make much difference.

Fronting it with a video of a ludicrously large compensation device isn't exactly reassuring either:

https://mobile.twitter.com/POTUS/status ... 7009050627
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
biketips666
Posts: 217
Joined: 19 Jun 2021, 7:17pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by biketips666 »

Stevek76 wrote: 5 Aug 2021, 7:36pm Fronting it with a video of a ludicrously large compensation device isn't exactly reassuring either:

https://mobile.twitter.com/POTUS/status ... 7009050627
I don't understand, what's a "compensation device"?
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mjr
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by mjr »

biketips666 wrote: 5 Aug 2021, 10:29pm
Stevek76 wrote: 5 Aug 2021, 7:36pm Fronting it with a video of a ludicrously large compensation device isn't exactly reassuring either:

https://mobile.twitter.com/POTUS/status ... 7009050627
I don't understand, what's a "compensation device"?
Something owned to compensate for a defect in another field, usually sexual but maybe this time environmental protection.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mjr
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by mjr »

francovendee wrote: 4 Aug 2021, 8:42am Earlier this year we stayed at house where the neighbour had an air source heat pump. On our last day he switched it on, It wasn't a noise I'd want to have live with and we were over 30 metres away. Even with the window mostly closed you could still hear it.
Yes, but how old was it? Current Mitsubishi ones claim 30-40 dB(A).

What viable alternatives to ASHP (ideally with local microgeneration) are there for rural heat? The best of the burners seems to be hydrogen-ready gas boilers but that means moving bottles around in rural areas and is still basically unsustainable burning.

And anyway, oil burning boilers are far far from quiet when the injectors open up, so ASHP is unlikely to be as noisy!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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