Electric everything.

[Jdsk]

But if the domestic supply eventually becomes pure hydrogen, maybe that's an easy way to recharge H fuel cells.

What's the delivery model for the experiments of pure hydrogen to housing?

I've assumed that it's low pressure gas, as with our current gas supply. If so it's going to need a lot of local kit to convert it into a form suitable for cars. And it's going to take a lot of energy to do it.

Jonathan

[[XAP]Bob]

3m/kWh is really, really, bad for an EV. And 18p/kWh is also a really expensive rate…

4 is typically achievable. Mine reports 4.1 over the last few days round penryn and environs (I.e not flat), I managed 4 on the M5 one way down as well.

[[XAP]Bob]

Monthly costs (rounded out a bit):
Fuel used to be ~120, is now ~30
Insurance, servicing, warranty, VED, breakdown cover used to be ~200
Depreciation (taken over 15 years of multiple cars) cost about ~90
Motability lease is everything but fuel - and that's where this comparison is slightly unfair ~ 270

So the difference between the two setups is <5/month

I make it a saving of 110 per month; 90+200+90-270. What have I missed?

Rounding errors, and you missed me double counting fuel in the transcription

[Mick F]

Hydrogen ..............

Sea story alert!

Spent many a long year in charge of weapon direction systems and radars.
We needed to calibrate the alignments and check out the accuracy of the radar aims. We launched 1mtr mesh-covered hydrogen balloons and the radar systems would lock on to them and track them into the heavens.
We carried two or three 4ft tall hydrogen cylinders and a pressure reducer and a hose connection to fill the balloons.

Very hazardous stuff is hydrogen. We had to clear the upper decks of personnel except for the balloon filler.

Hydrogen is stored under pressure in heavy steel vessels and is hyper explosive.
Petrol OTOH is lighter as it's held in a simple tank at normal atmospheric pressure and therefore quite safe in comparison.

[Jdsk]

Hydrogen is stored under pressure in heavy steel vessels and is hyper explosive.
Petrol OTOH is lighter as it's held in a simple tank at normal atmospheric pressure and therefore quite safe in comparison.

Hydrogen can be stored in many different forms.

I don't think that it's more dangerous than petrol in either distribution or use in vehicles. (It disperses much quicker, and it doesn't hang round as flammable vapour in sumps, pits, nooks and crannies.)

Jonathan

[Mick F]

3m/kWh is really, really, bad for an EV. And 18p/kWh is also a really expensive rate…

In order to get a cheaper rate, we would have to renegotiate our supply and account.
Can be done of course, but we don't use much lecky at all.

Kettle sometimes, cooker sometimes, and lighting is very very cheap. Rarely if ever use the immersion heater.
Fridge/freezer and a chest freezer run of course.

Biggest expense we have is anthracite for the kitchen range. It provides much/most of our cooking and provides much of our hot water. The multifuel stove in the livingroom takes as much wood as I can cut and when lit, we could export hot water!

If we could run a car on hot water, we would do.
Maybe we need a steam-powered car.

[Mick F]

Hydrogen can be stored in many different forms.

Many?
I thought it was stored as a liquid.

In what other forms can it be stored?

[biketips666]

3m/kWh is really, really, bad for an EV. And 18p/kWh is also a really expensive rate…

4 is typically achievable. Mine reports 4.1 over the last few days round penryn and environs (I.e not flat), I managed 4 on the M5 one way down as well.

So as you've actually got an EV, can I ask what it is?

Recharging seems to be about 88% efficient.

So 4.1 m/kwh x 0.88 gives 3.6 m/kwh of "bought" electricity.

I pay 17.4p/kwh I think (sounds like I'm overpaying). So charging cost per mile is 4.8pence. Slightly more than my spreadsheet calculations. Though hopefully with smart charging and EV tariffs I could get that down a bit.

[Jdsk]

Hydrogen can be stored in many different forms.

Many?
I thought it was stored as a liquid.

In what other forms can it be stored?

Gas (at a range of pressures), liquid, slush, and an enormous range of chemical and physical methods:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage

Jonathan

[biketips666]

3m/kWh is really, really, bad for an EV. And 18p/kWh is also a really expensive rate…

Wow, yes it is:

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs

4.5p/kwh off peak. That's about 1.5 pence per mile.

[Jdsk]

3m/kWh is really, really, bad for an EV. And 18p/kWh is also a really expensive rate…

Wow, yes it is:

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs

4.5p/kwh off peak. That's about 1.5 pence per mile.

How would average efficiency and electricity costs affect that comparison with the hybrid Yaris, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Mick F]

Re hydrogen .............

Thanks, Jonathan, but most of that isn't of any use for cars.
Liquid is the only way, and that is produced using pressure in strong heavy cylinders.

The future is the future, and any ideas that come in the future to make it simple and safe for refuelling the budget family hatch-back up the road at the filling station is there for the taking, but it's not there yet.

The only way an EV would pay its way is to have cheap - very cheap - electricity.

Apart from the government's VED losses, the petrol companies would lose out ........ therefore the cost of lecky will go up, and the cost of using them will also go up due to taxation.

Buy an EV now (providing you can power it cheaply) and you are in the honeymoon period.
It won't last.
There'll be tears before bedtime.

[biketips666]

3m/kWh is really, really, bad for an EV. And 18p/kWh is also a really expensive rate…

Wow, yes it is:

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs

4.5p/kwh off peak. That's about 1.5 pence per mile.

How would average efficiency and electricity costs affect that comparison with the hybrid Yaris, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

Is the hybrid Yaris MickF's car?

If so, he would be £444.58 a year better off, on 5,500 miles a year (can't remember the exact mileage).

On my mileage, against my current petrol car, I'd be £1355.86 better off. I must investigate these cheap EV charging tarrifs.

[Jdsk]

Re hydrogen .............

... but most of that isn't of any use for cars.
Liquid is the only way, and that is produced using pressure in strong heavy cylinders.

Current hydrogen cars store hydrogen as gas, not liquid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Storage

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Wow, yes it is:

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs

4.5p/kwh off peak. That's about 1.5 pence per mile.

How would average efficiency and electricity costs affect that comparison with the hybrid Yaris, please?

Is the hybrid Yaris MickF's car?

If so, he would be £444.58 a year better off, on 5,500 miles a year (can't remember the exact mileage).

On my mileage, against my current petrol car, I'd be £1355.86 better off. I must investigate these cheap EV charging tarrifs.

Thanks

Jonathan