Electric everything.

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Hellhound
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Hellhound »

Jdsk wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 12:20pm The infrastructure is already working in the UK, and there's no missing component that has yet to be invented.
The batteries can be reused in static applications where the energy storage density isn't so critical, and then recycled.
Jonathan
Where?
There's a token infrastructure there now but it won't be anywhere near the capacity needed for 100% or even 50% EVs in the timeframe the govt has stated.
Unless it is made A LOT cheaper EV is just not viable!
Currently you buy a an EV but you don't own the power source,ie batteries,you then have to replace them after they're no longer working at a huge cost.It is just not financially sound.EV are and always have been a non-starter in the real world.Just 'Green'enough to appease the tree-huggers but the technology is nowhere near making them a credible alternative to the combustion engine.Their 'Green' credentials are somewhat debatable too.This fact the tree-huggers seem to ignore.
Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Hellhound wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 3:16pm
Jdsk wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 12:20pm The infrastructure is already working in the UK, and there's no missing component that has yet to be invented.
The batteries can be reused in static applications where the energy storage density isn't so critical, and then recycled.
Where?
There's a token infrastructure there now but it won't be anywhere near the capacity needed for 100% or even 50% EVs in the timeframe the govt has stated.
I think that you're questioning the scale of the implementation. The point I was making is that you can see electricity generation, electricity distribution, battery charging, and batteries routinely powering EVs all over the UK. This is quite different from "hydrogen".

Which bit of the infrastructure do you think is going to limit roll-out... charging at home, charging elsewhere, enough total electricity?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Hellhound wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 3:16pmCurrently you buy a an EV but you don't own the power source,ie batteries,you then have to replace them after they're no longer working at a huge cost.It is just not financially sound.EV are and always have been a non-starter in the real world.Just 'Green'enough to appease the tree-huggers but the technology is nowhere near making them a credible alternative to the combustion engine.Their 'Green' credentials are somewhat debatable too.This fact the tree-huggers seem to ignore.
I don't expect most EVs to ever have their batteries replaced.

On the environmental aspects are you comparing BEVs with other "cars"... BEVs are better on lifetime carbon dioxide production, local chemical pollution, and local noise.

Or making the important point that like for like substitution of vehicles isn't enough of a change by itself from the planet's point of view?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Maillot Rouge wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 8:10pm Electric vehicles won’t take over in my lifetime.It is simply not viable.We might see more Ecars but everything else will stay as it is.
E-HGVs?
E-Ocean Liners?
E-Aeroplanes?
Not in this Century.Not viable.E-cars aren’t the future but merely a stepping stone to make it look like we’re doing something.It would be better to stay with petrol and diesel until a reliable long term replacement is found.
No technology is ever "the future" in the sense that something different won't replace it.

But why would it be better to stay with fossil fuels and ICEs for "cars", please?

Thanks

Jonathan
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al_yrpal
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by al_yrpal »

The human race is managing to make a limited success of wind generated power and solar power although there is far to go to add on viable solutions for energy storage. Its all the result of pioneering efforts in developing viable engineering solutions. We are currently at the dawn of Electric Vehicle and battery technology with lots of challenging problems to solve, not least the issue of power distribution and access to charging points. Solved they eventually will be driven by the expensive efforts and sacrifices of pioneers.

Al
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Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

I don't see major "engineering"problems that are barriers to widespread adoption of BEV passenger cars in the UK, although there'll be many improvements in every component.

There are problems in cost and the size and consistency of incentives and deterrents.

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Oldjohnw »

Basically, I don’t think we want every ICE vehicle replaced by an EV. As long as I am not one of those who have to give up my car! :D
John
iandriver
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by iandriver »

Is still think it's amazing an EV comes with its own battery. Tesla demoed a system for swapping out the battery automatically a few years back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj6LaYFall4

You drive into what was formerly the petrol station, the flat battery(s) is swapped automatically for a recharged one and off you drive. The user never has to own or charge a battery.
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Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Oldjohnw wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 4:48pm Basically, I don’t think we want every ICE vehicle replaced by an EV. As long as I am not one of those who have to give up my car!
If I'm reading that correctly.... then : - )

But there is also a trope that changing from ICE to BEV isn't worth it because it doesn't solve "the problem" all by itself. That's mostly a straw man argument.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

iandriver wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 4:49pm Is still think it's amazing an EV comes with its own battery. Tesla demoed a system for swapping out the battery automatically a few years back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj6LaYFall4

You drive into what was formerly the petrol station, the flat battery(s) is swapped automatically for a recharged one and off you drive. The user never has to own or charge a battery.
Isn't that great.

But they dropped it. And they're probably right.

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Oldjohnw »

Jdsk wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 4:50pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 4:48pm Basically, I don’t think we want every ICE vehicle replaced by an EV. As long as I am not one of those who have to give up my car!
If I'm reading that correctly.... then : - )

But there is also a trope that changing from ICE to BEV isn't worth it because it doesn't solve "the problem" all by itself. That's mostly a straw man argument.

Jonathan
Yes: I used a ! but a :-) would have been better.

Perhaps this is overcompensation :D :) :lol: :P
John
Jdsk
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

You had one... I deleted it when I quoted!

: - )

Jonathan
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by mjr »

Oldjohnw wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 4:48pm Basically, I don’t think we want every ICE vehicle replaced by an EV. As long as I am not one of those who have to give up my car! :D
I think I'd happily give up my car if there was a viable car share scheme here. I'd walk or take the folding bike to a car pick-up point, tap the keycard to open the car, put the bike in boot and use the car as needed. But I don't live in a city and I don't want to set up a car share scheme myself, though.

Why do we still have a car? It's not for real emergencies because there are blue light vehicles for those, which will go electric when the time is right. It's not even for moving large purchases, with the rise of delivery services and "man with a car/van" services over the last year. It's for all those complicated medium/long-distance journeys ill-served by mass transport (which stops before 6pm here) and it's to avoid dealing with the car hire chains who have been awful in various ways about half the times I've had to use them over the year (I know some here report better experiences).

Would I hire an electric car? Probably. Can I hire one? It looks like Enterprise hire them out in the UK, but only Teslas (which I suspect are expensive) and not in my town. While Sixt hire them out in other countries but not the UK.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Oldjohnw »

mjr wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 5:25pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 4:48pm Basically, I don’t think we want every ICE vehicle replaced by an EV. As long as I am not one of those who have to give up my car! :D
I think I'd happily give up my car if there was a viable car share scheme here. I'd walk or take the folding bike to a car pick-up point, tap the keycard to open the car, put the bike in boot and use the car as needed. But I don't live in a city and I don't want to set up a car share scheme myself, though.

Why do we still have a car? It's not for real emergencies because there are blue light vehicles for those, which will go electric when the time is right. It's not even for moving large purchases, with the rise of delivery services and "man with a car/van" services over the last year. It's for all those complicated medium/long-distance journeys ill-served by mass transport (which stops before 6pm here) and it's to avoid dealing with the car hire chains who have been awful in various ways about half the times I've had to use them over the year (I know some here report better experiences).

Would I hire an electric car? Probably. Can I hire one? It looks like Enterprise hire them out in the UK, but only Teslas (which I suspect are expensive) and not in my town. While Sixt hire them out in other countries but not the UK.

I would also happily give up mine when I move so long as public transport meets my needs. Family camping might be difficult and visiting my son. I would happily hire for that. Mrs Ojw would need a new back.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 31 Jul 2021, 8:16am, edited 1 time in total.
John
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Hellhound
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Re: Electric everything.

Post by Hellhound »

Jdsk wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 3:42pm But why would it be better to stay with fossil fuels and ICEs for "cars", please?
Thanks
Jonathan
Because there are 1000s,possibly millions of people who like ICEs?!
I'm one of them.I like the sound,the feel etc.
I've driven EVs and an electric superbike.They are horrible souless things.Brilliant acceleration,I concede that,but absolutely no pleasure or feel to it!It's just boring.No gearbox,clutch or sound of an engine at 10,000rpm.It's pointless.Some people ride/drive for pleasure first and as a necessity second.
ICEs give pleasure to millions.You either get it or don't.Not everyone wants to drive a tiny little rollerskate with a bland exterior and even blander interior.
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