Who designed this machine?

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Jdsk
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Jdsk »

Ben@Forest wrote: 20 Aug 2021, 4:17pm
Jdsk wrote: 20 Aug 2021, 3:59pm I don't think that "was designed" helps, unless meant humorously.
'Designed' was the term, humorously used, by the OP. Hence its use. However it can be argued we did not evolve to be 70 or 80 or 110 years old. Many now do reach those ages (well the first two at least) but many conditions are age-related.
Thanks

So we clearly have evolved to be able to live to those ages or we wouldn't be able to.

The important discussion is about quality of life.

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 20 Aug 2021, 4:22pm ........The important discussion is about quality of life.

Jonathan
That goes to the heart of the matter,when the "machine" has quality of use,it has a useful existence.
That doesn't mean it has to be running at optimum,usefulness is an elastic concept.

I no longer run at optimum but some people still think I'm quite useful and I agree with them :)
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pwa
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by pwa »

simonineaston wrote: 19 Aug 2021, 11:33am So back some weeks ago, my left shoulder / arm starts to ache. Now I have discomfort using the arm when in certain positons - mainly up and back - ouch ouch. How annoying. Then the other day I was walking and felt discomfort in the sole of right foot, which continues some days later. Ouch ouch.
What the heck?! At 60-ish years old, is the machine past its best before date? Who do I complain to? Can I get my money back? As a mollycoddled middle-class softy who's never done a hard day's work in his life, I dread to think how I'd feel if I had ! :shock:
As someone who long ago made the conscious decision to make sure all my jobs involved a physical element, I feel that to some extent it has helped me. The constant lifting of heavy objects has given me a strong back, for example, meaning that I don't have any chronic back problems. I believe that, to some extent, physical activity at work can make your body tougher. The desk is your enemy.
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simonineaston
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by simonineaston »

The desk is your enemy.
I think you are so right! Specially too, when combined with 'puter, screen & mouse... ironically, I used to get a modest amount of exercise back when commuting but even that went out the window at the start of lockdown... there was the few miles I rode to station and back and the lunchtime walk.
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Ben@Forest
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Ben@Forest »

pwa wrote: 21 Aug 2021, 7:55am As someone who long ago made the conscious decision to make sure all my jobs involved a physical element, I feel that to some extent it has helped me. The constant lifting of heavy objects has given me a strong back, for example, meaning that I don't have any chronic back problems. I believe that, to some extent, physical activity at work can make your body tougher. The desk is your enemy.
I started working in forestry, doing practical work, when l was 28 and having finished one career. One of the first blokes l worked with was a very quick feller, whippet thin and 62 years old. You have (or had) to handle the smaller diameter timber into small stacks to allow it to be picked up easily, so there was quite a lot of handling work as well as the felling. I worked with quite a few older blokes doing practical work over the years but l suppose he sticks in my mind as he was one of the first and in his 60s.
reohn2
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by reohn2 »

Ben@Forest wrote: 21 Aug 2021, 9:02am
pwa wrote: 21 Aug 2021, 7:55am As someone who long ago made the conscious decision to make sure all my jobs involved a physical element, I feel that to some extent it has helped me. The constant lifting of heavy objects has given me a strong back, for example, meaning that I don't have any chronic back problems. I believe that, to some extent, physical activity at work can make your body tougher. The desk is your enemy.
I started working in forestry, doing practical work, when l was 28 and having finished one career. One of the first blokes l worked with was a very quick feller, whippet thin and 62 years old. You have (or had) to handle the smaller diameter timber into small stacks to allow it to be picked up easily, so there was quite a lot of handling work as well as the felling. I worked with quite a few older blokes doing practical work over the years but l suppose he sticks in my mind as he was one of the first and in his 60s.
I agree with both posts.
On the subject of whippet workmen,I've worked with quite a few over the years and learned a lot from them.
Most have a knack of finding the easiest way to work and generally can be quite a bit quicker.They lack the outright strength of the burly brauny types and as a result tend to find other ways of getting around physical problems,they also tend to be more humourous to work with.This humorous side of them can defuse anger toward themselves quite quickly.
I can only think of one whippet who never could get the idea that physical labour needn't be harder than it should be and can be a lot less than needs be by applied technique.He had a string of civil engineering qualifications after his name but was partically useless where heavy work was concerned,academically very astute but lacking both technique and common sense where heavy work was concerned,watching him dig holes was a mixture of pain and entertainment.
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Jdsk
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Jdsk »

Sitting and prolonged sitting do seem to increase the risk of heart disease and obesity.

Back pain causes an enormous amount of suffering and loss of productivity.

But it's not all clear how to avoid it. For example there isn't even good evidence for benefit from advice on manual handling, despite its proliferation:
https://www.cochrane.org/CD005958/BACK_ ... in-workers

Jonathan

PS: Full list of Cochrane Reviews on "back pain":
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/advance ... ain%22&t=1
!
Bonefishblues
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Bonefishblues »

Jdsk wrote: 21 Aug 2021, 10:14am Sitting and prolonged sitting do seem to increase the risk of heart disease and obesity.
In themselves Jonathan, or in that they are associated with those who simply move less?
Jdsk
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Jdsk »

I don't know how good the studies are. And I'm always surprised that the effect is detectable.

There are a couple of recent systematic reviews cited in the Wikipedia article. I suggest starting with those and anything in the Cochrane database:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting#Health_risks

"Sedentary time and its association with risk for disease incidence, mortality, and hospitalization in adults: a systematic review and meta-analysis":
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25599350/

"Occupational sitting and health risks: a systematic review":
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20837291/

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by reohn2 »

The "machine" is "designed" for use,physical as well as mental use for an optimum lifespan*,when it's used properly and not overly stressed or overly worked.
That said,circumstances and desire for more,along with bad "servicing"** can cause early failure of the whole system.

*optimum lifespan can be short,medium or long depending on circumstances,as a friend of mine always says "I'd rather wear myself out than rust away"

**servicing the "machine" with good food and drink(in moderation)is paramount for optimum performance,something always possible or desirable by it's owner.
Last edited by reohn2 on 22 Aug 2021, 9:31am, edited 1 time in total.
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Maillot Rouge
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Maillot Rouge »

Thank you all for reminding me what I have to look forward to in the next 30 years!
Jdsk
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Jdsk »

Don't give up hope: more people are living in good health at large calendar ages than ever before. : - )

Jonathan
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bigjim
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by bigjim »

I had a very physical working life into my 40s. Then i discovered I could earn more wearing a suit. So I gained some qualifications and worked 9 to 5 for the first time which also gave me time for quality excercise, not brutal labour. There is a big difference for the body. I've stayed fit and healthy till I hit 70. Now I have arthritis of the hips. Not bothering me much. But I have a recurring thigh problem that is keeping me off my beloved bikes and will not go away. I notice the long lived, 200 year old whales and tortoises just stroll, constant slow non stressful movement. Maybe a lesson there?
Jdsk
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by Jdsk »

bigjim wrote: 22 Aug 2021, 11:02am I had a very physical working life into my 40s. Then i discovered I could earn more wearing a suit. So I gained some qualifications and worked 9 to 5 for the first time which also gave me time for quality excercise, not brutal labour. There is a big difference for the body.
Yes. And the physical wear and tear isn't taken sufficiently into account in our approach to retirement and pensions.

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Re: Who designed this machine?

Post by simonineaston »

I have to say that I'm slightly miffed that the apperance of several minor health issues is coincident with my being able to stop full-time work - it seems slightly unfair! I was looking forward to kicking back and enjoying myself, but no - my application to do voluntary work for FareShare is on hold 'cos of my shoulder, I can't walk very far 'cos my foot hurts, I have occasional heart beat issues that I'm now worried about and can't sleep properly anymore. It's almost as if the folks who put the package together figured they'll get 60-ish years out of each worker before they start to fall apart !! :roll:
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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