Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

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Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Psamathe »

Mick F wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 4:51pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 4:25pm It's like leaving a golf club. All you need to do is leave... of course it rather affects your options when you want to swing a golf bat.
Good analogy. :D

If you wanted to swing a golf bat, you shouldn't have left the golf club in the first place, or wanted to join another club.
We voted to leave, and most of us don't want to swing a golf bat.
...
In your analogy, "swinging the golf bat" includes things like Free Trade, like open borders - which it seems we do want. But we don't want to comply with the trade rules we helped create (standards, protections, phytosanitary, etc.). And our politicians seem unable to appreciate that we left the club but they still want to cherry-pick the benefits of membership. And we then turn to threats when we don't get what we want ...

Ian
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 4:25pm
Mick F wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 3:54pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 12:40pm A country does not need permission to leave, as we fully know. Equally obviously, when you have become deeply involved in an organisation separation is a complex process. If countries want to join it is their initiative. The EU does not let countries join easily: they have to pass pretty significant democratic entry requirements.

Your summary, Mick, is the reverse of the reality.
Of course not.
A country doesn't need to "ask permission" to leave so they have to get out when and how they can. The bus carries on regardless.
The "jumping out of the window" words I used is only me being emotive about this, but there is a ring of truth in it.

A country has to "ask permission" to join though.

Do you think the EU misses us?
Do they wish we'd stayed in our half-hearted way ie no Euro, no Schengen?
Rather different from jumping out of a moving bus. Of course the world carries on spinning. We could have left the EU without anywhere near the damage it has done (despite the governments attempts to claim that wages are rising they are actually falling in real terms, and that's the best thing they thing they can say?)

It's like leaving a golf club. All you need to do is leave... of course it rather affects your options when you want to swing a golf bat.
Spot on!
And what so many of us have been saying all along,we could've left without cutting off our right arm and right leg!
Of course the idiots in power,one Boris Johnson and his merry idiots didn't think any further than their own wallets!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by thirdcrank »

It's like leaving a golf club. All you need to do is leave... of course it rather affects your options when you want to swing a golf bat.
I remember pre-referendum chatting with the mother of one of my grandson's schoolfriends on the way to collect from school

She intended to vote leave and her explanation was that if we didn't like being out we could rejoin "Just like a club." It's ages since I've spoken to her as my grandson has been at high school several years so I don't know her current thinking.
Ben@Forest
Posts: 3647
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Ben@Forest »

Mick F wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 3:54pm Do you think the EU misses us?
Do they wish we'd stayed in our half-hearted way ie no Euro, no Schengen?
We weren't the only EU country not to have the Euro or not to be in Schengen. I'm sure many supporters of the European project saw the UK as awkward and possibly not fully committed to it, but now without the UK other countries have now got the reputation of being 'the Frugal Four'.

The Netherlands and Austria have teamed up with non-euro Sweden and Denmark to oppose contributions to southern countries who have suffered from economic woes and the pandemic. Sweden and Denmark don't want to support euro countries when not in the currency themselves. In reality though they are known as the new awkward squad they often supported the UK's position previously, it was just as the biggest (economic) naysayer that the UK that got the blame. And of course the Irish will definitely be in an awkward squad (possibly of one or two) on tax harmonisation in the future.

The EU will miss UK money the most - pretty much all the smaller EU nations do not want budget cuts despite less money coming in - but the Frugal Four have said the EU should cut its budget accordingly - and maybe reallocate it.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

Mick F wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 4:51pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 4:25pm It's like leaving a golf club. All you need to do is leave... of course it rather affects your options when you want to swing a golf bat.
Good analogy. :D

If you wanted to swing a golf bat, you shouldn't have left the golf club in the first place, or wanted to join another club.
But the thing is we could've left and still used the club's course,however when you put a selfseeking mad man in charge who doesn't even read the terms of leaving you end up excommunicated out on your arris,which is what's happening before your eyes presently,it may not affect you ATM but if you wait long enough it surely will!
We voted to leave, and most of us don't want to swing a golf bat
I think you could very well be wrong about that under the present leaving 'strategy'
Golf ........ as someone once said ......... is a good walk spoiled.
About golf I agree but analogies fall down somewhere along the line.
In this analogy golf has it's up sides,which means not even a walk good or otherwise!

BTW,have you any idea how much money the EU poured into Cornwall and the west country to help with it's problems?
And just how much less the UK government plan to grant it?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
merseymouth
Posts: 2519
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by merseymouth »

Yet more tosh, "Just like leaving a golf club", :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: As a former golfer I know better.
More like the Mafia in the eyes of many, with the E.U. constantly delivering fetid horse heads to us!
Remember the they gave us an offer we shouldn't have refused, in their eyes that is.
But here's a question about leaving yet still having access - "How many posters on this forum are EX members of CTC/CUK? MM
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

merseymouth wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 5:46pm Yet more tosh, "Just like leaving a golf club", :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: As a former golfer I know better.
More like the Mafia in the eyes of many, with the E.U. constantly delivering fetid horse heads to us!
Remember the they gave us an offer we shouldn't have refused, in their eyes that is.
But here's a question about leaving yet still having access - "How many posters on this forum are EX members of CTC/CUK? MM
Tosh?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Oldjohnw
Posts: 7764
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Oldjohnw »

merseymouth wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 5:46pm Yet more tosh, "Just like leaving a golf club", :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: As a former golfer I know better.
More like the Mafia in the eyes of many, with the E.U. constantly delivering fetid horse heads to us!
Remember the they gave us an offer we shouldn't have refused, in their eyes that is.
But here's a question about leaving yet still having access - "How many posters on this forum are EX members of CTC/CUK? MM
I left CUK and do not have access. I can read some things on a website but I cannot get into the members’ area. This forum does not belong to CUK.
John
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Psamathe »

merseymouth wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 5:46pm ...Remember the they gave us an offer we shouldn't have refused, in their eyes that is.
....
They made is several offers which we refused so they tried to accommodate us in other ways and we refused so they compromised and kept an open mind and agreed to our suggestions on the NI protocol. They'd have preferred other solutions but we declined them so they went along with our requirements. Yet seems "we" (our politicians) didn't understand what we asked for and didn't read the agreement and didn't listen to those affected by it and guess what happens when you fail on all those aspects!

Ian
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Psamathe »

merseymouth wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 5:46pm ....But here's a question about leaving yet still having access - "How many posters on this forum are EX members of CTC/CUK? MM
It is the choice of the CTC/CUK to set rules about access to this forum. If the CTC/CUK decide it would be a members only forum then that is their choice and I'd comply with that decision. In the same way as the EU determine rules about product they allow in and the procedures required to demonstrate that product complies with their e.g. safety requirements.

It is quite reasonable for a country to block e.g. carcinogenic pesticide laden foods for human consumption to be imported, etc. The UK does the same e.g. we have food standards that imports need to comply with and procedures to demonstrate imports comply.

Ian
merseymouth
Posts: 2519
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by merseymouth »

But you have no say in any of the matters that effect you! We have ceded that choice to some people who say one thing then do anything they ruddy please. The entire democratic process is a sham ,election manifestos mean damn all, many of you say that about the greedy Tories, yet accept on face value the bleats from others who are cut from the same fallible human cloth?
What in reality have any of us had since Adam was a lad that we have truely had a say in? Even with the Brexit debate it is clear that we have been taken for suckers, and as W.C. Fields said - "Never give a sucker an even break"!
What is the difference between a common thief and a con man? Non! Who is the bigger thief the man who steals the goose from the common, or the man who steals the common from the goose? You wise ones tell me, well you tell me I'm ignorant, now educate me on that point. Pax MM
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

merseymouth wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 9:00pm But you have no say in any of the matters that effect you! We have ceded that choice to some people who say one thing then do anything they ruddy please. The entire democratic process is a sham ,election manifestos mean damn all, many of you say that about the greedy Tories, yet accept on face value the bleats from others who are cut from the same fallible human cloth?
What in reality have any of us had since Adam was a lad that we have truely had a say in? Even with the Brexit debate it is clear that we have been taken for suckers, and as W.C. Fields said - "Never give a sucker an even break"!
What is the difference between a common thief and a con man? Non! Who is the bigger thief the man who steals the goose from the common, or the man who steals the common from the goose? You wise ones tell me, well you tell me I'm ignorant, now educate me on that point. Pax MM
I for one won't disagree with you on those points,personally I approach a GE voting for the better of two evils,though TBH I thought Corbyn could've made a real change for the better given the chance.
And of course the man who steals the common has always been at the root of the problem and an enemy of the people.Johnson and his cronies not only wishes to steal the common but the goose too whilst making it appear he's giving it back you!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Stevek76
Posts: 2085
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Stevek76 »

Ben@Forest wrote: 4 Oct 2021, 5:36pm it was just as the biggest (economic) naysayer that the UK that got the blame.
I think that UK governments played up being awkward to look tough for domestic audiences probably helped with that blame.

That said the 'EU didn't like us anyway' line is mostly a fabrication of the leave campaign and doesn't reflect objective assessments of the UK's membership.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
merseymouth
Posts: 2519
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by merseymouth »

Hi Reohn2, So you think that Corbyn would have made a difference if Labour had won the last election? For once I agree with you :shock: , but don't get too elated. That difference would not have been beneficial.
I can only recall one group of political aspirants who sett out a manifesto and actually stuck to it?
Some names, Dominic Byrne, Tony Mulholland, Derek Hatton et al, they orchestrated a victory in the Council Elections. The did it by being fronted by a genuinely decent, caring man, a retired Head-Teacher, John Hamilton, a devout Quaker. He saw no wrong in anyone, which was his weakness. Hamilton was trusted by the denizens of the city, but the plan of the plotters, and plotters they were, was the design of Militant Tendency. Building more social housing was at the core, suppress the rents for all of the social housing, many other Robert Tressall approved factors. They went so far as to give out "Decorating Money gifts, but only to the social housing families, but paid for those who paid rates, but gifted to those who didn't.
It worked, they won that election. Then they planned and built a multitude of properties, very costly, but hey paying for the over 60 years would make them look cheap.
Upshot? The city was almost bankrupted, sold to the banks, Thatcher took her revenge, the city was screwed.
Hatton is a pre-cursor for a Corbyn on the road to ruin. But they followed the Militant Tendency plan! MM
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

merseymouth wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 8:19am Hi Reohn2, So you think that Corbyn would have made a difference if Labour had won the last election? For once I agree with you :shock: , but don't get too elated. That difference would not have been beneficial.
I can only recall one group of political aspirants who sett out a manifesto and actually stuck to it?
Some names, Dominic Byrne, Tony Mulholland, Derek Hatton et al, they orchestrated a victory in the Council Elections. The did it by being fronted by a genuinely decent, caring man, a retired Head-Teacher, John Hamilton, a devout Quaker. He saw no wrong in anyone, which was his weakness. Hamilton was trusted by the denizens of the city, but the plan of the plotters, and plotters they were, was the design of Militant Tendency. Building more social housing was at the core, suppress the rents for all of the social housing, many other Robert Tressall approved factors. They went so far as to give out "Decorating Money gifts, but only to the social housing families, but paid for those who paid rates, but gifted to those who didn't.
It worked, they won that election. Then they planned and built a multitude of properties, very costly, but hey paying for the over 60 years would make them look cheap.
Upshot? The city was almost bankrupted, sold to the banks, Thatcher took her revenge, the city was screwed.
Hatton is a pre-cursor for a Corbyn on the road to ruin. But they followed the Militant Tendency plan! MM
I beg to differ on Corbyn being the reincarnation of Hatton etal,but ulimately we'll never know.
Currently the common and the goose is being stolen by Johnson and sold back to those who can't see the trick and IMO Starmer won't be a great deal better should Labour win the next GE.

PR is the only way forward IMO but the Turkeys don't vote for Chistmas,the political elite have it all sewn up and won't give it up lightly as there's way too much profit in it for them.

BTW,I never saw Corbyn with a vanity reg plate on his car,come to think of it I don't think he owns a car,but I've seen him going to work on his bike lots of times.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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