Where?
Anyone for Gas?
Re: Anyone for Gas?
Until you have a relative stuck in that traffic who needs urgent medical care. There are a myriad of reasons why these lunatics shouldn't be blocking the M25.
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Re: Anyone for Gas?
Any others of that myriad? Most of those vehicles will not have been in such a desperate hurry.
As others have said, your unfortunate relative is much more likely to have their journey disrupted by the frequent holdups caused by an excess of traffic. But that, presumably, is acceptable.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Re: Anyone for Gas?
I was referring to the tragic case of the lady who suffered a stroke, likewise the victim of the RTC that happened when these lemmings threw themselves in front of traffic. Do you know the area ? Are you aware of the disruption and congestion that occurs in every outlying town and village in the vicinity when incidents like this happen. Clearly not.Mike Sales wrote: ↑21 Sep 2021, 7:36pmAny others of that myriad? Most of those vehicles will not have been in such a desperate hurry.
As others have said, your unfortunate relative is much more likely to have their journey disrupted by the frequent holdups caused by an excess of traffic. But that, presumably, is acceptable.
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- Posts: 7898
- Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm
Re: Anyone for Gas?
I have only once been unfortunate enough to travel the M25. There were many holdups, and I have read that this is often the case. With your local knowledge can you tell me this is not so?ossie wrote: ↑21 Sep 2021, 7:41pm
I was referring to the tragic case of the lady who suffered a stroke, likewise the victim of the RTC that happened when these lemmings threw themselves in front of traffic. Do you know the area ? Are you aware of the disruption and congestion that occurs in every outlying town and village in the vicinity when incidents like this happen. Clearly not.
I believe that traffic jams happen often, and began as soon as the motorway was opened.and this is one of the difficulties that trying to outbuild traffic growth fails to solve. There are other problems. the traffic generated by the building has to leave the Motorway and makes congestion worse in the surrounding area.
Was the accident caused by "the lemmings"? Perhaps you could give us a link.
RTCs are a normal consequence of motor vehicle use. I do not mean to minimise their cosequences, but to point out that the way we move around the roads inevitably causes many deaths.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Re: Anyone for Gas?
Here is a link to the accident.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... -motorway/
Here's a link to the lady paralysed after a stroke and the resulting delays
https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/ ... ital-trip/
I hate the M25 but unfortunately it serves a purpose in moving people and goods around and keeping the same traffic out of neighbouring towns and villages. It's hardly an ideal situation having an orbital six lane motorway but the protests aren't even about that.
I fully agree with the right to protest but in Vorpals post there's a massive oxymoron / paradox..someone will without doubt put me right on the exact term.
As far as I am concerned, protesters should shut down the M25 every day. And other motorways, too.
But I'd really rather we did this in a sensible way.
Please someone tell me how these actions are 'sensible'. How do you shut down a motorway in a sensible way ?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... -motorway/
Here's a link to the lady paralysed after a stroke and the resulting delays
https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/ ... ital-trip/
I hate the M25 but unfortunately it serves a purpose in moving people and goods around and keeping the same traffic out of neighbouring towns and villages. It's hardly an ideal situation having an orbital six lane motorway but the protests aren't even about that.
I fully agree with the right to protest but in Vorpals post there's a massive oxymoron / paradox..someone will without doubt put me right on the exact term.
As far as I am concerned, protesters should shut down the M25 every day. And other motorways, too.
But I'd really rather we did this in a sensible way.
Please someone tell me how these actions are 'sensible'. How do you shut down a motorway in a sensible way ?
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- Posts: 7898
- Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm
Re: Anyone for Gas?
I note you do not claim that these roads, the M25 and the roads that feed traffic to and from it it, are free of traffic holdups except when there are protests. This would not be credible.
The journalist/drivers are happy to attribute blame, but neither can they claim that there are no RTCs or holdups on days without protests.
The fact is that this ring road was full as soon as it was built, and has only made these problems worse, not better. It does not keep traffic out of the surrounding area, this traffic is on its way to and from the M25.
The phenomenon of induced traffic is well understood, but the politics makes it difficult to admit.
The SE of England is a hell of traffic and building more and more roads has only encouraged more and more traffic, with the attendant problems of incidents and holdups.
To blame what is are everyday events on the protestors is disingenuous.
Encoraging more traffic by building more roads is not sustainable. We have been doing that for a hundred years but the problems have only got worse.
The journalist/drivers are happy to attribute blame, but neither can they claim that there are no RTCs or holdups on days without protests.
The fact is that this ring road was full as soon as it was built, and has only made these problems worse, not better. It does not keep traffic out of the surrounding area, this traffic is on its way to and from the M25.
The phenomenon of induced traffic is well understood, but the politics makes it difficult to admit.
The SE of England is a hell of traffic and building more and more roads has only encouraged more and more traffic, with the attendant problems of incidents and holdups.
To blame what is are everyday events on the protestors is disingenuous.
Encoraging more traffic by building more roads is not sustainable. We have been doing that for a hundred years but the problems have only got worse.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Re: Anyone for Gas?
Oh dear, telegraph reporting & headlines.
Some random witness blamed it on the protestors
"Surrey Police have said the investigation into the collision is ongoing, adding: "It is too early in the investigation to know if these two incidents were linked.""
Regardless of whether or not the protestors were the cause of that particular standstill, the fault lies with the driver(s) of one or more of the cars involved. At least one person was following the car in front too closely and/or paying insufficient attention. Standstills can form for a whole number of reasons and, on the M25, are a daily occurence anyway. A browse through @surreyroadcops twitter feed from yesterday after provides a fairly good idea of why these collisions happen.
As for the stroke victim, even if we take a caller into LBC to third rate outrage merchant/shock jockey Andrew Pierce as a reliable witness, choosing to drive an emergency case to hospital, which apparently was a considerable distance away, yourself rather than use an ambulance with those handy blue lights is a very poor decision.
As it is, without independent verification, I think it's just been fabricated. The details just don't stack up, he claims he was delayed for 6 hrs, yet the protest was in place for only 4, anyone far enough back would be diverted off the previous junction and it's perfectly feasible for medical assistance to have been provided during that time period if he was really stuck in that front part of the queue and called 999.
Some random witness blamed it on the protestors
"Surrey Police have said the investigation into the collision is ongoing, adding: "It is too early in the investigation to know if these two incidents were linked.""
Regardless of whether or not the protestors were the cause of that particular standstill, the fault lies with the driver(s) of one or more of the cars involved. At least one person was following the car in front too closely and/or paying insufficient attention. Standstills can form for a whole number of reasons and, on the M25, are a daily occurence anyway. A browse through @surreyroadcops twitter feed from yesterday after provides a fairly good idea of why these collisions happen.
As for the stroke victim, even if we take a caller into LBC to third rate outrage merchant/shock jockey Andrew Pierce as a reliable witness, choosing to drive an emergency case to hospital, which apparently was a considerable distance away, yourself rather than use an ambulance with those handy blue lights is a very poor decision.
As it is, without independent verification, I think it's just been fabricated. The details just don't stack up, he claims he was delayed for 6 hrs, yet the protest was in place for only 4, anyone far enough back would be diverted off the previous junction and it's perfectly feasible for medical assistance to have been provided during that time period if he was really stuck in that front part of the queue and called 999.
Last edited by Stevek76 on 21 Sep 2021, 8:49pm, edited 1 time in total.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
Re: Anyone for Gas?
You equate blocking the M25 with an everyday event ?Mike Sales wrote: ↑21 Sep 2021, 8:37pm I note you do not claim that these roads, the M25 and the roads that feed traffic to and from it it, are free of traffic holdups except when there are protests. This would not be credible.
The journalist/drivers are happy to attribute blame, but neither can they claim that there are no RTCs or holdups on days without protests.
The fact is that this ring road was full as soon as it was built, and has only made these problems worse, not better. It does not keep traffic out of the surrounding area, this traffic is on its way to and from the M25.
The phenomenon of induced traffic is well understood, but the politics makes it difficult to admit.
The SE of England is a hell of traffic and building more and more roads has only encouraged more and more traffic, with the attendant problems of incidents and holdups.
To blame what is are everyday events on the protestors is disingenuous.
Encoraging more traffic by building more roads is not sustainable. We have been doing that for a hundred years but the problems have only got worse.
Oh right, carry on then. Can we schedule a time and day so people can divert. Perhaps pop down and witness the carnage per chance ?
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- Posts: 7898
- Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm
Re: Anyone for Gas?
Are you telling me there are not everyday holdups on the M25?. I must have been very unlucky when we were driving round it.
Should traffic not be diverted every day? I have often heard complaints about holdups.
Is the road "carnage" free except when there are protestors?
It does seem to me that you think that the usual horrors around London are acceptable.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Re: Anyone for Gas?
Absolutely there are holdups but these are major incidents. I mean if you think more hold ups than normal are justified (and acceptable) as I said lets come up with a timetable to book your slot.Mike Sales wrote: ↑21 Sep 2021, 8:58pmAre you telling me there are not everyday holdups on the M25?. I must have been very unlucky when we were driving round it.
Should traffic not be diverted every day? I have often heard complaints about holdups.
Is the road "carnage" free except when there are protestors?
It does seem to me that you think that the usual horrors around London are acceptable.
Carnage is used everytime there's a major incident / serious holdup / accident on the M25....I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to condone it but these don't happen all of the time. Sheer weight of traffic is a different aspect, can usually be forecast and dealt with.
However If this is going to be the standard response then there's really no use in continuing the debate, you don't use the road, you don't live or cycle in the vicinity, you aren't impacted by the selfish deliberate actions of a few.
Re: Anyone for Gas?
I was wrong, highways england was reporting the protest delays on the 15th were clear by 11:30, so that's under 3hrs.
I think some healthy scepticism regarding an unverified caller to a radio station that exists on manufactured outrage is reasonable.
Re frequency of M25 being a carpark.
The very next day at about 7AM, a vehicle fire shut 3 lanes c/w and 2 ac/w between J10 & 11 with 6 miles of queues. If you look at the bbc news feed for a county that has some of the M25 in it you'll find numerous reports of disruption due to breakdowns & collisions. The M25, and frankly, most of the south east beyond more central parts of london is a car dependent basket case. Serious incidents do happen all the time in my experience.
I think some healthy scepticism regarding an unverified caller to a radio station that exists on manufactured outrage is reasonable.
Re frequency of M25 being a carpark.
The very next day at about 7AM, a vehicle fire shut 3 lanes c/w and 2 ac/w between J10 & 11 with 6 miles of queues. If you look at the bbc news feed for a county that has some of the M25 in it you'll find numerous reports of disruption due to breakdowns & collisions. The M25, and frankly, most of the south east beyond more central parts of london is a car dependent basket case. Serious incidents do happen all the time in my experience.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
Re: Anyone for Gas?
Does the M25 have a hard shoulder any more? (as I believe emergency vehicles are allowed to use the hard shoulder; I thought emergency use was the main purpose of the hard shoulder, what it was designed for).
Personally I feel it daft for hard shoulders to have been removed from some motorways and that the removal makes them somewhat more dangerous.
Ian
Personally I feel it daft for hard shoulders to have been removed from some motorways and that the removal makes them somewhat more dangerous.
Ian
Re: Anyone for Gas?
It’s a pity that the climate about which people were protesting doesn’t get people as outraged as the actions of the protesters seems to.
It's a pity when people are more angry with protesters than polluters.
It's a pity when people are more angry with protesters than polluters.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 21 Sep 2021, 11:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
John