Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

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Mick F
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by Mick F »

sjs wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:52pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 10:55am
Mick F wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 10:46am :lol: :lol:

Yes, it was a lighthearted suggestion by me ........... but you knew that anyway. :wink:
I was wondering how much Water you drank subcutaneously
It would have to be in beer to work for Mick.
Yep! :D

Been out with the doggie today, got soaked in the sudden downpours ............ so had the dry out in the pub! :D
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 1:17pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Nov 2021, 3:18pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Nov 2021, 10:18am
And there's a new report from Macmillan on the effects on breast cancer, but I haven't yet found it or read it.
Guardian coverage:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... id-crisis/
I've found their press release:
https://medium.com/macmillan-press-rele ... cef3#_edn1
And today's NAO report: "NHS backlogs and waiting times in England":
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploa ... ngland.pdf

"This report looks in detail at backlogs and waiting times for elective and cancer care in the NHS in England. It explains how the current increased backlogs and waiting times have arisen, including the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."


Screenshot 2021-12-01 at 13.16.18.png


Jonathan
It's an aspect I've banged on about on this forum before - my frustration with politicians when they refuse to take adequate steps to address Covid because they feel the NHS is "coping" (in their judgement). In many respects it was not "coping" before but the Covid overload has taken a massive toll. Yet all politicians can see is "not too many people waiting on trolleys" whilst ignoring those sitting at home when their condition could be treated, ignoring the staff who have been burnt out from the Covid overload, etc.

Ian
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mjr
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

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Hellhound wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 12:53pm The 15 minutes is advisory.I had jab 1 and 2 and walked straight out and drove home.They can't force you to stay and the car insurance angle is nonsense.
Why wouldn't you want to wait near medical experts during the time when servere adverse reactions are most likely to show? It would help yourself and the NHS.
Again it's advisory or they can request but they can't force anyone to wear a face covering!
No, it's no longer advisory in England since yesterday. It's now law. They can't force you to wear one but officers can remove you from shops and bar you from entry. Even the exemption claim won't work if they have reason to think you're not, such as you saying "ha ha yes I'm exempt" sarcastically like I heard someone say before July, and you'd have to challenge them in court.

But again, if you're not exempt, why wouldn't you want to help yourself and the NHS with this simple measure? I really don't understand refuseniks on this!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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thirdcrank
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by thirdcrank »

IIRC, at the earliest stages of the covid vaccination programme, two NHS workers had an immediate allergic reaction. I can't remember if it was fatal but again IIRC a prompt injection of antihistamine was vital.

It's hardly an infringement of personal civil liberties to protect recipients from this rare but serious side effect.

I see a difference between driving home afterwards and not doing so eg walking or travelling as a passenger. If somebody drove away without waiting for the prescribed period, then, in the probably unlikely event of an immediate allergic reaction, the driver would be in a precarious legal position if they crashed and survived.

I can also see that the perceived rarity of this side effect after months of jabbing might make procedures less strict
LollyKat
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by LollyKat »

After our first two jags they kept a beady eye on us to make sure we waited for the prescribed 15 minutes. However when we had our boosters a few weeks ago they were more relaxed about it, saying that if we hadn't had any reaction after the previous ones we could leave straight away if we wanted - so we did.
Jdsk
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by Jdsk »

Hellhound wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:43pmWell I will quote an answer to this that cropped up on my Facebook feed.
"I have had 2 jabs and a booster which they now tell us don't work against this new strain but a bit of paper on my face does"
Fair point?
No, it isn't.

Who is telling us that existing vaccines "don't work against this new strain"?

Nonpharmaceutical interventions including wearing masks reduce transmission. This isn't in conflict with or an alternative to immunisation. The beneficial effects are additive.

Jonathan
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mjr
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:54pm
Hellhound wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:43pmWell I will quote an answer to this that cropped up on my Facebook feed.
"I have had 2 jabs and a booster which they now tell us don't work against this new strain but a bit of paper on my face does"
Fair point?
No, it isn't.

Who is telling us that existing vaccines "don't work against this new strain"?

Nonpharmaceutical interventions including wearing masks reduce transmission. This isn't in conflict with or an alternative to immunisation. The beneficial effects are additive.
Yes, but some people will never accept there are any levels of protection between 0 and 100%. Some of them are funded by Russians. Some are idiots. Some I don't know.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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slowster
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by slowster »

Hellhound wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:43pm Well I will quote an answer to this that cropped up on my Facebook feed.
"I have had 2 jabs and a booster which they now tell us don't work against this new strain but a bit of paper on my face does"
Fair point?
Firstly, the following is a report of a study on the effectiveness of masks published in the Lancet earlier this year. Please read it.
Summary

Background

Face masks have become commonplace across the USA because of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) epidemic. Although evidence suggests that masks help to curb the spread of the disease, there is little empirical research at the population level. We investigate the association between self-reported mask-wearing, physical distancing, and SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA, along with the effect of statewide mandates on mask uptake.

Methods

Serial cross-sectional surveys were administered via a web platform to randomly surveyed US individuals aged 13 years and older, to query self-reports of face mask-wearing. Survey responses were combined with instantaneous reproductive number (Rt) estimates from two publicly available sources, the outcome of interest. Measures of physical distancing, community demographics, and other potential sources of confounding (from publicly available sources) were also assessed. We fitted multivariate logistic regression models to estimate the association between mask-wearing and community transmission control (Rt<1). Additionally, mask-wearing in 12 states was evaluated 2 weeks before and after statewide mandates.


Findings

378 207 individuals responded to the survey between June 3 and July 27, 2020, of which 4186 were excluded for missing data. We observed an increasing trend in reported mask usage across the USA, although uptake varied by geography. A logistic model controlling for physical distancing, population demographics, and other variables found that a 10% increase in self-reported mask-wearing was associated with an increased odds of transmission control (odds ratio 3·53, 95% CI 2·03–6·43). We found that communities with high reported mask-wearing and physical distancing had the highest predicted probability of transmission control. Segmented regression analysis of reported mask-wearing showed no statistically significant change in the slope after mandates were introduced; however, the upward trend in reported mask-wearing was preserved.

Interpretation

The widespread reported use of face masks combined with physical distancing increases the odds of SARS-CoV-2 transmission control. Self-reported mask-wearing increased separately from government mask mandates, suggesting that supplemental public health interventions are needed to maximise adoption and help to curb the ongoing epidemic.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/land ... 4/fulltext

I think that, like most of us, you are perfectly able to grasp the overall significance of the information in that article. I also think you have the intelligence to be able to compare that article and the information in it with what you see in your Facebook feed, and draw your own conclusions.

I would not rely on Facebook as an information source. A while ago you posted a comment which the moderators deleted, in which you claimed that the Government had over-stated the effectiveness of the vaccine, and that boosters are only now being required because the Government over-estimated the vaccines' performance (or something very similar). That was a conspiracy theory, and there was no substance to it or evidence for it, but you chose to believe it and repeat it on this forum.

Why do you trust and rely on Facebook and other Facebook users for information about Covid? There is strong evidence from many sources that Facebook is deliberately manipulating its 'customers', and in doing so encouraging people to believe all sorts of conspiracy theories and outright lies. Facebook does not care about this, because the more people get sucked in to reading such material, the more time they spend on Facebook and the more advertising revenue Facebook earns. See for example the news reports of the whistleblowing by Frances Haugen, e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59038506. This is not a 'conspiracy theory', it is a genuine conspiracy for which there is already evidence. So why trust them?
Hellhound wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:43pm That is just one of many.People are losing any trust they had in what they're being told.
I'm actually really p***** off because after much thought and going against my better judgement I caved in and had the 'booster' last Friday.I now know I should have gone with my first instinct.
My advice to you is either deregister your Facebook account and stop using it completely, or if you cannot do that then limit its use to the bare minimum to keep in touch with friends and family.
Last edited by slowster on 1 Dec 2021, 9:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ncutler
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by ncutler »

There are several references in the last few posts to a piece by 'Hellhound' that I have deleted.

It's always difficult to decide what to do in these cases. The, now removed, post is excellently refuted by several people and one could argue that leaving the post would therefore not be problematic: perhaps it is better to have the thing visible and challenged than it is to remove it ?

And anyway the post lives on in the challenged quotations.

There again, removing the post hopefully sends a message.

I apologise for saying the same thing over and over again: we are not going to provide a platform for dangerous or antisocial nonsense.
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by pwa »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 10:25am Hi,
pwa wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 7:13am My own NHS administered jabs were delivered without any faff. I was in and out within ten minutes.
What so now sitting down for 15 minutes before you walk out the door?

I suggested to the nurse given me my booster that nobody takes any notice of sitting down for 15 minutes!
She retorted oh yes they do!

Well in my experience people arrive after me and leave before me after just a few minutes when I'm sitting down after my jab.

she said car insurance companies say your insurance will be invalid if you do not wait for the 15 minutes?
It would be easy to enforce it so just give somebody a number ticket after they've had their jab and they're not allowed to leave until the number comes up which would be 15 minutes later.

Maybe in La La Land where pwa resides time travels more slowly :P

P.S I think I stayed for something like 14 minutes at the 25 seconds, I found it hard work but I managed it.
I waited outside for a few minutes. It was a nice day on both occasions and fresh air, with the face covering removed, seemed preferable to a sports hall. I didn't time myself while I waited, but I went when I was convinced I was feeling good. I tend to know if and when I am going to feel faint, and I didn't feel that way then. But the procedures inside the building didn't last long at all. I spent about two minutes waiting in total, the rest of the time being occupied by answering preliminary questions and having the jab.
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Oh I wish I was allowed to take the booster now. The city I work in and travel to by train has had an omicron case confirmed. I think the hospital will be full by Xmas. Seriously thinking of taking my 7 days holiday to finish early to hide away, not carry them over to 2022.
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by pwa »

Tangled Metal wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 7:19am Oh I wish I was allowed to take the booster now. The city I work in and travel to by train has had an omicron case confirmed. I think the hospital will be full by Xmas. Seriously thinking of taking my 7 days holiday to finish early to hide away, not carry them over to 2022.
As yet there is no suggestion that Omicron is more dangerous than Delta. You might catch it more readily, but if you are not in a vulnerable group it will almost certainly just give you a mild illness for a few days.
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by Jdsk »

The study that's getting the attention this morning:

"Safety and immunogenicity of seven COVID-19 vaccines as a third dose (booster) following two doses of ChAdOx1 nCov-19 or BNT162b2 in the UK (COV-BOOST): a blinded, multicentre, randomised, controlled, phase 2 trial"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext

And initial expert reactions at the Science Media Centre:
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expe ... or-pfizer/

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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pwa wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 5:26am
Tangled Metal wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 7:19am Oh I wish I was allowed to take the booster now. The city I work in and travel to by train has had an omicron case confirmed. I think the hospital will be full by Xmas. Seriously thinking of taking my 7 days holiday to finish early to hide away, not carry them over to 2022.
As yet there is no suggestion that Omicron is more dangerous than Delta. You might catch it more readily, but if you are not in a vulnerable group it will almost certainly just give you a mild illness for a few days.
The problem is that a more transmissible variant will kill more people than a more deadly one.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No?

Post by mjr »

pwa wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 5:26am
Tangled Metal wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 7:19am Oh I wish I was allowed to take the booster now. The city I work in and travel to by train has had an omicron case confirmed. I think the hospital will be full by Xmas. Seriously thinking of taking my 7 days holiday to finish early to hide away, not carry them over to 2022.
As yet there is no suggestion that Omicron is more dangerous than Delta. You might catch it more readily, but if you are not in a vulnerable group it will almost certainly just give you a mild illness for a few days.
I'd be wary of suggesting "almost certainly". I've read reports of a possible genetic reason why some without vulnerabilities fall seriously ill. It's still technically rare, but you've more chance of having that genetic pattern than winning the lottery.
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