Ken Loach on the state of the Labour Party

[Oldjohnw]

At what point is Labour - or any party - irrelevant? When they have 40% of seats? 25%? 10%? The Green party has one seat. It is most certainly not irrelevant.

[atoz]

At what point is Labour - or any party - irrelevant? When they have 40% of seats? 25%? 10%? The Green party has one seat. It is most certainly not irrelevant.

Now- they are no longer an effective opposition due to the lack of leadership, and the less than charismatic personality of the leader. But don't believe me, believe the Yougov poll evidence. Quite simply Starmer doesn't impress the voters.

I'm sure people dismissed the Greens in Scotland also. Don't think they'll be doing that now. Increasingly they are doing well in local elections in England. The votes are coming from younger people, who often in the past backed Labour under Corbyn. Some ex Labour Party members will join the Greens and the Green Party will benefit from their campaigning experience. It's a matter of time, but sooner or later a right wing Labour party will be history.

As for Blair, I remember the missed opportunities to reverse rail privatisation, amongst many other things. It took Corbyn to dare to challenge the right wing consensus, and he was shafted even by his own party for this. We need people of courage and vision, and Starmer isn't such a person and I'm not sure Labour is capable of electing someone better.

[bikerider]

'Blair will only ever be remembered in UK people's minds as "The War Criminal".' Quote

Blair was the man who stuffed the Tories in three elections and the third thrashing came after the Iraqi war with a massive 60-odd majority. On the way to those three victories he said goodbye to five Tory leaders. That's how I remember him and like a lot of loyal supporters I haven't voted Labour since. I haven't changed my political viewpoint, just not voted. So my only visit to the polls in the last few years was to vote 'Remain'.

[Oldjohnw]

At what point is Labour - or any party - irrelevant? When they have 40% of seats? 25%? 10%? The Green party has one seat. It is most certainly not irrelevant.

Now- they are no longer an effective opposition due to the lack of leadership, and the less than charismatic personality of the leader. But don't believe me, believe the Yougov poll evidence. Quite simply Starmer doesn't impress the voters.

I'm sure people dismissed the Greens in Scotland also. Don't think they'll be doing that now. Increasingly they are doing well in local elections in England. The votes are coming from younger people, who often in the past backed Labour under Corbyn. Some ex Labour Party members will join the Greens and the Green Party will benefit from their campaigning experience. It's a matter of time, but sooner or later a right wing Labour party will be history.

Ineffective is different to irrelevant.

[reohn2]

'Blair will only ever be remembered in UK people's minds as "The War Criminal".' Quote

Blair was the man who stuffed the Tories in three elections and the third thrashing came after the Iraqi war with a massive 60-odd majority. On the way to those three victories he said goodbye to five Tory leaders. That's how I remember him and like a lot of loyal supporters I haven't voted Labour since.......

That was then this is now,and Blair will only be remembered by most of the voting public,especially the younger generation who vote, as "the war criminal"

[661-Pete]

Who here has read Robert Harris's thriller The Ghost (also as a Roman Polanski film The Ghost Writer)? In it, a fictional ex-PM strongly based on Tony Blair is arraigned in The Hague on War Crimes charges. But those charges are based on a very specific incident, namely collusion in the kidnapping in Pakistan, and handing over to the CIA, of four suspects, one of whom dies under 'interrogation'.

I don't think, for all his faults, anything as devious as that can be pinned on Blair. So maybe the label 'War Criminal' is a bit harsh. Correct me if I'm wrong. A liar yes - but lying in itself is not a war crime.

As for pragmatism. Labour lost that by appearing to reject the Brexit vote. Not clever. General election 2019, Hartlepool by election this year.

A majority of people in the UK have long rejected, and still reject, the Brex**it vote. Hartlepool is not representative. And the 2019 GE was heavily skewed by - guess what!

[bikerider]

I don't understand why some supporters within the Labour party condemn their most successful and popular leader ever yet idolise a man who led them to the most humiliating defeat I can remember.

How much further will they sink before realising the majority of the electorate who actually vote for them are not just party or union members cheering on comrades.

Those folk who vote for Labour winners come from all walks of life and are not just "ordinary working people" (whoever they are).

[PH]

I don't understand

Did you watch the video at the start of this thread? Do you have anything to say about the views expressed in it?

[al_yrpal]

Excuses, delusions, excuses and plain misinformation.
"The majority are against Brexit"...then how come a majority voted for Brexit....twice!

Not Blair, but someone much like Blair will be the next Noolabour Prime Minister.

Al

[Oldjohnw]

Unison has backed Starmer’s proposed leadership rules,apparently.

[reohn2]

........I don't think, for all his faults, anything as devious as that can be pinned on Blair. So maybe the label 'War Criminal' is a bit harsh. Correct me if I'm wrong. A liar yes - but lying in itself is not a war crime......

It depends what you're lying about,the the results of lies on WMDs cost millions of lives.

[reohn2]

Excuses, delusions, excuses and plain misinformation.
"The majority are against Brexit"...then how come a majority voted for Brexit....twice!

And look where Johnson's brexit has got us!! !

Not Blair, but someone much like Blair will be the next Noolabour Prime Minister.

Al

You say so,we'll see.

[reohn2]

I don't understand why some supporters within the Labour party condemn their most successful and popular leader ever yet idolise a man who led them to the most humiliating defeat I can remember.

Who do you mean,who's idolising whom?
Labour lost the last election because of a wholesale charachter assination of it's leader by the pro Tory/Johnson rightwing media and by the slogan "get brexit done" and "oven ready deal".
Well brexit's done and look where it's got us,we're in the oven cooking!

How much further will they sink before realising the majority of the electorate who actually vote for them are not just party or union members cheering on comrades

The deck is stacked and the dealer(Murdoch et al)hold the aces,when those dealers are realised by the many for what they are thing may change, as it is we'll have Tory rule.

Those folk who vote for Labour winners come from all walks of life and are not just "ordinary working people" (whoever they are).

See above,the electorate have been hoodwinked,and now we all pay the price of Torism under a madman.

FWIW,I believe Corbyn to be the most honest and honojrable politician I've seen in my adult life and I'm 68,too right he wasn't perfect and wasn't the statesman people expect to see,but just look at the alternative we've seen since the last GE.
And don't forget Labour very nearly won in 2017,I strongly believe the righwing were terrified of Corbyn and some of his worst enemies were and still are in the Labour party,Starmer being one Mendelson being another,they're like KL says in the video part of the Establishment who wish to keep the status quo!
And they disgust me as much as the Tory party ,Johnson and Farage et al disgust me.

[Hellhound]

"The majority are against Brexit"...then how come a majority voted for Brexit....twice!

Yes the same 'majority' who are now claiming that they didn't vote for 'this' Brexit
No matter how much trouble the Labour party is in under Starmer it will never sink as low as the scum we currently have running the country.....into the ground!
Labour should be so far ahead in the polls they should be out of sight.They aren't.With the country on it's knees(again) and the Tories miles ahead Starmer must know he is not the man to lead the opposition.I think he does, but doesn't want the LP to be the opposition

[JohnW]

............................. the Tory party ,Johnson and Farage et al disgust me.

Yup !