Right number of murders a year?

[reohn2]

Uniform patrol is one of my many hobby horses, of course. As is policing by media release. How many and for how long this will continue are the questions concerned Wiltshire residents should be asking of their police "boss"

https://www.wiltshire-pcc.gov.uk/

This is the centre of it,if people thought they'd be caught and it cost them dearly,less people would commit less crime.
The creep who killed Sarah Everard thought he would get away with this crime by the thought that the crimes he'd committed previously he'd got away with,due to the poor state of policing of the police themselves.

[axel_knutt]

However overall the rate is incredibly low. To the year ending March 2020 it was 11.7 per million population

Looks like we're doing quite well here then. There have been 5 murders I can count since 1972, in a town that's grown from 25,000 to 40,000 over that time, so that would be around a third of the going rate. There was a stabbing of a pub landlord last year, another three were domestics I think, but the first was an armed robbery that went wrong. It was a big national news story that ran and ran at the time, not least because the first trials descended into farce and collapsed because the defendant, who had connections to the Krays, was innocent.
Barn Restaurant Murder

[pwa]

Uniform patrol is one of my many hobby horses, of course. As is policing by media release. How many and for how long this will continue are the questions concerned Wiltshire residents should be asking of their police "boss"

https://www.wiltshire-pcc.gov.uk/

This is the centre of it,if people thought they'd be caught and it cost them dearly,less people would commit less crime.
The creep who killed Sarah Everard thought he would get away with this crime by the thought that the crimes he'd committed previously he'd got away with,due to the poor state of policing of the police themselves.

I wish that were true but I have my doubts. He was caught on CCTV several times as he abducted her, which signals a certain amount of carelessness. How many more police officers would we need walking around the streets to provide a deterrent that would have put him off that night? I think we'd be talking several times the number currently out there, and even that might not be enough to make him feel like he would be caught. Remember, the Yorkshire Ripper conducted his reign of terror for years, and at a time when Police on foot were a more common sight, and when the public were aware of his existence and looking out for him. If I were intent on murdering someone that I was going to pick up off the streets I'd be more concerned about CCTV these days. But this man didn't even worry about that.

I live in an area with fairly low crime rates, but our nearest medium sized town has had a few murders recently, and the ones I can think of involved the deaths of children with suspects within their own household. Tragic and very upsetting, of course, but a different issue to murders involving abduction off the streets. I can't remember one of the latter in my local area in the last decade. It is thankfully rare. The murders in this area are usually "domestics", so resources ought to be deployed in that direction.

But attacks on women (not usually involving murder) are a reality and need addressing from various angles. We should be doing that for two reasons. Firstly, to prevent the damage done by the actual attacks. And secondly, to reduce the perceived threat that limits what women can do and still feel safe.

[thirdcrank]

... The murders in this area are usually "domestics", so resources ought to be deployed in that direction. ...

If by resources you mean police resources that's the situation already, to the extent now that systematic uniform patrol no longer exists. IMO the gradual shift from prevention to detection has occurred piecemeal without any real plan and an organisation founded on one system has changed to another. It's increasingly assumed that the police can somehow prevent things happening in private, when they can often only respond after the event, but now - almost inevitably - women are increasingly and understandably concerned about their safety in public places. It's no comfort to know that police effort is concentrated on domestic violence.

[reohn2]

I wish that were true but I have my doubts. He was caught on CCTV several times as he abducted her, which signals a certain amount of carelessness.

Carelessness because he thought he wouldn't be caught perhaps?

How many more police officers would we need walking around the streets to provide a deterrent that would have put him off that night? I think we'd be talking several times the number currently out there, and even that might not be enough to make him feel like he would be caught

It's about efficiency and stopping or catching people early in life that has a better effect than them thinking they can get away with(in this case murder)their crimes

Remember, the Yorkshire Ripper conducted his reign of terror for years, and at a time when Police on foot were a more common sight, and when the public were aware of his existence and looking out for him

I can't comment on that particular case other than to say those were very differnt times than today .

If I were intent on murdering someone that I was going to pick up off the streets I'd be more concerned about CCTV these days. But this man didn't even worry about that

I'd suggest that's because he thought he wouldn't be recognised or caught as you say he was careless.That said there is huge amount of sexual crime that never gets investigated due too a lack of efficiency caused mainly by a gross undermanning of the police,a reduction of 20,000 policer officers,along with 23,000 police support staff in the past decade.And I'd suggest that a reduction in morale went down with those numbers.

I live in an area with fairly low crime rates, but our nearest medium sized town has had a few murders recently, and the ones I can think of involved the deaths of children with suspects within their own household. Tragic and very upsetting, of course, but a different issue to murders involving abduction off the streets. I can't remember one of the latter in my local area in the last decade. It is thankfully rare. The murders in this area are usually "domestics", so resources ought to be deployed in that direction.

Support for those abused in the home has also reduced due the grand austerity plan where social workers and other soccial support staff fu ding was cut to the bone
I'm not saying throwing money alone at the problem will fix it but people being abused by their partner,parent or child should be a priority in a modern civilicpsed society

But attacks on women (not usually involving murder) are a reality and need addressing from various angles. We should be doing that for two reasons. Firstly, to prevent the damage done by the actual attacks. And secondly, to reduce the perceived threat that limits what women can do and still feel safe.

The first angle is a good support network,along with good efficient policing,the UK is sadly lacking on both counts.

[Mike Sales]

I think that a well funded network of womens' refuges must be important in reducing domestic murders.

[Bonefishblues]

Uniform patrol is one of my many hobby horses, of course. As is policing by media release. How many and for how long this will continue are the questions concerned Wiltshire residents should be asking of their police "boss"

https://www.wiltshire-pcc.gov.uk/

This is the centre of it,if people thought they'd be caught and it cost them dearly,less people would commit less crime.
The creep who killed Sarah Everard thought he would get away with this crime by the thought that the crimes he'd committed previously he'd got away with,due to the poor state of policing of the police themselves.

Apropos this case, I cannot see how anyone with any connection to the police, and most members of the general public would imagine that they could commit this crime and not be caught. There must have been some psychopathy at work that overcame the rational brain (sorry to sound so 'clinical' about something so awful)

[[XAP]Bob]

I think that a well funded network of womens' refuges must be important in reducing domestic murders.

And mens - though I agree that we should absolutely start with the ladies in this case.

[Mike Sales]

I think that a well funded network of womens' refuges must be important in reducing domestic murders.

And mens - though I agree that we should absolutely start with the ladies in this case.

I once knew a woman who killed her husband, in self defence after much abuse. My girlfriend was a neighbour and first on the scene.
Maybe a womens' refuge would have saved him.

[Oldjohnw]

Our right honourable Justice Secretary just this morning came up with the idea that misogyny of women against men was wrong. He also when Foreign Secretary discovered that the English Channel was quite useful for goods getting here.

Perhaps this should go in the misuse of English thread. Or perhaps a Totally Useless thread. You do despair when this is the man in charge of justice.

We have another Chris Failing Grayling.

[thirdcrank]

One of the things I'm trying to say is that if it's felt that the thrust should be towards protecting women in domestic settings, then it IMO needs a police service recruited and trained for that purpose with the relevant attributes and skills. It would then be more honest to be open that as a society we believe having police officers on visible patrol is at best a gimmick - a false reassurance - and really a waste of money. This is almost where we are, without it being formally recognised. And the problem of women feeling unsafe in public places goes ignored.

Incidentally, I think women's refuges only really provide any sort of solution because there's nothing better. They can, eg be a place of safety while the courts decide whetherthe abuser should be excluded from the home. If a woman wants to leave an abusive relationship, there's not really much provision for making a fresh start beyond the reach of the abuser. There are not the gaols big enough to accommodate all the men.

[Psamathe]

I do despair at times about human nature (or maybe Western human nature). That we even need Women's Refuges, that we have a concept of "abusive relationship" - what is wrong with us as a species/society?

And now women who feel unsafe in the presence of a Police Officer are being told to flag down a bus! (up-skilling bus drivers?)

And what would intelligent aliens watching our going-ons make of us - would they consider us intelligent?

Ian

[Oldjohnw]

Refuges are there largely because another problem is not being addressed. Same with foodbanks.

[mattheus]

If you listed all the things we would LIKE our police to do, and then estimated the cost of doing them well, you'd need an enormous tax hike for everyone, and still not have any money for emptying the bins etc!

[Oldjohnw]

Many things that the police end up with, as with prisons, are the consequences of other policy failings. Many problems stem pretty directly from health and education policy gaps.