Assisted Dying

[al_yrpal]

A couple of weeks ago we had to say goodbye to our 15 year old Collie Meg. It was very kind and peaceful and quite unlike the hell my poor wife suffered for 3 years with Lewy Body Dementia and an extremely painful collapsing spine...

I recieved this message from the Humanists. If you agree please support them by writing to a peer...

Hi,

We need your help.

In just three weeks, the House of Lords will debate legislation to end our country’s ban on assisted dying. If this bill commands enough support in the Lords it would be a historic victory – clearing the way for a lasting change in the law. We need your help to make this happen. Will you write to a peer today in support of Baroness Meacher’s assisted dying bill?

We’ve teamed up with Dignity in Dying to jointly call for a change in the law. Together we’ve prepared a template letter which we’d encourage you to put into your own words, as we know peers are more likely to respond to personalised, printed letters.

WRITE TO A PEER


Every week at least one Briton travels to Switzerland to end their life. Nine in ten members of the public want to see our prohibitive law reformed, and half of all doctors personally support this change. It is time for a change in the law.

By writing to a peer in support of this assisted dying bill we could help pave the way to making it a reality.

With thanks,

Keiron McCabe
Assisted Dying Campaigner
Humanists UK

P.S. Please do write to a peer today – it won’t take you long. But it will make a world of difference to those seeking an assisted death.

Al

[Jdsk]

The British Medical Association very recently changed its policy on this:

"On 14 September 2021 our policy-making body (the representative body) voted in favour of a motion changing the BMA’s policy from opposition to a change in the law on assisted dying, to a position of neutrality."

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-suppo ... sted-dying
has lots of information on the subject.

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

IMO it's coming and only a matter of when rather than if. My own inkling is that eventually there will be a change in the definition of death to cover the circumstances when somebody has dementia - has lost it in the lingo - even though they may be physically fit enough to be kept alive for years. IMO, that will open the floodgates. The driving force here is the growing numbers of people affected.

Euthanasia - where somebody capable of making the decision decides that pain or other symptoms make life not worth living - is a separate issue.

[Jdsk]

I think that this is the current Bill:
https://bills.parliament.uk/publication ... uments/513

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

My reading of that Bill is that it only covers euthanasia and in limited circumstances so I suspect not many people would be personally affected although I've no real idea of the numbers. I suspect that some doctors have tacitly helped with this already. I didn't realise at the time what happened but when my dear old dad was terminally ill with rectal cancer and in great pain he had a lot of prescription medication on hand and eventually took what I believe to be the fatal dose.

This is quite separate from how we deal with people who are relatively physically fit but with dementia.

[al_yrpal]

We all realise that happens when the morphine appears, but depending on the Doctor thats variable.
My Mrs's greatest fear was dementia and right from the start of her illness she frequently said she just wanted to die peacefully. She had frequently nursed dying patients in her 44 year career as a specialist medical nurse and realised what she would have to go through. Her father and grandmother had died from dementia. Horrid...

Following four people with dementia and their families over the course of two whole years, exploring what it's really like to live with the condition over a period of time.

Read more about the programme here:https://tv24.co.uk/program/dementia-us- ... e-1-o1phd6


Al

[Carlton green]

The topic is a most thorny issue; assisted dying is open to various types of abuse and as such I’d be wary of moving far from the current situation. That’s not to say that the current situation is good but rather that, in the round, changes could make end of life care worse.

One of my old relatives has significant short term memory loss, is bed bound and temporarily ‘cured’ of cancer. I would regard his quality of life as below poor but he is happy and, even if it were possible, has no desire to ‘bow out’. Should that choice be made from him? Another relative was involved in running a care home, he was a tough chap but even he was shaken and upset by the way some visitors treated their aged relatives. Sometimes people need protection from others who only have their own interests in mind ..

Of course that only paints part of the picture and if I were to be suffering in an incurable way then what’s the point of prolonging life? I think that I’d welcome a release from suffering but maybe a prolonged life witnessed encourages others to support and find cures rather than accepting defeat or regarding euthanasia as the cure.

[pwa]

Assisted suicide, which I suppose is what this is about, must be made possible some day. For someone with dementia and reduced capacity it might require them to have made a "will" outlining their views at a time before they lost the capacity to make a rational decision. Obviously it would require careful overseeing to prevent abuse, but where life has become pain and not much more, it could be the kindest route to take.

[thirdcrank]

The legislation to enable people to appoint others to make decisions for them is already in place, but you cannot authorise somebody to do something which is illegal.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

Re dementia, I think there will eventually be a change in the definition of death to something based more on brain function.

[Jdsk]

That’s not to say that the current situation is good but rather that, in the round, changes could make end of life care worse.

A breakdown of doctors' views by speciality is in the BMA paper linked upthread. That includes those working in end of life care and palliative care.

Jonathan

[francovendee]

Having watched my mum and dad both die a painful death I fervently hope I don't go the same way.
Assisted dying is something that needs to be freely discussed without particular bias especially from religeous groups.
If it beomes legal then of course there will be some abuse but I see this as no more likely than a doctor or nurse deciding to kill a patient. Murderer in the medical profession is rare and I'd expect the same from assisted dying

[Oldjohnw]

Having watched my mum and dad both die a painful death I fervently hope I don't go the same way.
Assisted dying is something that needs to be freely discussed without particular bias especially from religeous groups.
If it beomes legal then of course there will be some abuse but I see this as no more likely than a doctor or nurse deciding to kill a patient. Murderer in the medical profession is rare and I'd expect the same from assisted dying

Religious groups should have an input but in no way a superior one, just one of many. They do, rightly or wrongly, speak on behalf of many. Many (Anglican) bishops now support the concept so their comment could well be useful. I suspect the RCs are as vehemently opposed as ever.

Personally, I am not opposed but the regulation needs to be strict and comprehensive.

[Jdsk]

If it beomes legal then of course there will be some abuse but I see this as no more likely than a doctor or nurse deciding to kill a patient. Murderer in the medical profession is rare and I'd expect the same from assisted dying

The BMA site has a table of arguments used by those for and against a change:
https://www.bma.org.uk/media/4394/bma-a ... g-2021.pdf

Of particular relevance to this point is the concern about pressure from the family.

Jonathan

[Oldjohnw]

Thanks for the link, Jonathan..

[thirdcrank]

Pressure from families is going to be a big driver in the eventual change in policy, but it won't be dressed up in those terms, but rather a change in the definition of death. IMO

The precedent for me is abortion. The resistance to change based on religious and ethical grounds were strong and resulted in all sorts of theoretical safeguards "and the rest is history."