Words worth?

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reohn2
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Re: Words worth?

Post by reohn2 »

Ben@Forest wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 10:45am
reohn2 wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 8:10am I don't disagree with that but the outside world there are only two genders male and female.
To be clear I'm not against people changing their sex or being homosexual.
Apparently around 1.3 people per 1,000 are born with intersex characteristics (ambiguous genitalia), but this figure seems to be conflated with intersex traits - people who may have no ambiguous characteristics and just feel different to the gender they were born as - and which is a higher proportion.

The 1.3/1000 figure is interesting. I went to a school with 1,600 children, about 250 in each year and 300 in the 6th form. It means that statistically about 2 were intersex. In an era when there was no privacy in sports showers and changing rooms and so on l can't remember anyone being a 'marked out' for that (and kids are cruel) though of course l never was in female showers and maybe there any unusual characteristics are easier to hide. But at school in those situations you wouldn't want to be 'different'.
I've no doubt there's an element of people of ambiguous genitalia,as there's an element of LGBT people knowing the percentage doesn't matter so long as they're treated equally in society and not as freaks.
But it's a fact that children can be cruel if let be,personally I fought backagainst a group who fancied their chances,headed straight for the ringleader and gave him what he deserved,I was given a wide berth after that.I hasten to add this was in the 60's when no one carried a knife or any other kind of weapon,things are far different today.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Ben@Forest
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Ben@Forest »

reohn2 wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 4:29pm But it's a fact that children can be cruel if let be,personally I fought back against a group who fancied their chances,headed straight for the ringleader and gave him what he deserved,I was given a wide berth after that.I hasten to add this was in the 60's when no one carried a knife or any other kind of weapon,things are far different today.
I don't think physical abuse is actually the most significant problem. Cyber or psychological bullying is far more likely. A few years ago there was a R4 programme in which a long-experienced teacher said the worst bullying was amongst girls and was more likely to be be along the 'you're not our friend', you're poor; you're fat etc - and of course it could be online too.
reohn2
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Re: Words worth?

Post by reohn2 »

Ben@Forest wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 5:01pm
reohn2 wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 4:29pm But it's a fact that children can be cruel if let be,personally I fought back against a group who fancied their chances,headed straight for the ringleader and gave him what he deserved,I was given a wide berth after that.I hasten to add this was in the 60's when no one carried a knife or any other kind of weapon,things are far different today.
I don't think physical abuse is actually the most significant problem. Cyber or psychological bullying is far more likely. A few years ago there was a R4 programme in which a long-experienced teacher said the worst bullying was amongst girls and was more likely to be be along the 'you're not our friend', you're poor; you're fat etc - and of course it could be online too.
By other weapon I did mean the smartphone which is as much a bullying weapon as a knife.
Sorry if I was being a little obscure
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Oldjohnw
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Oldjohnw »

If these peers get their way in their defiance of Johnson it will be possible to be guilty of misogyny :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... dApp_Other
John
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Hellhound
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Hellhound »

reohn2 wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 8:10am I don't disagree with that but the outside world there are only two genders male and female.
To be clear I'm not against people changing their sex or being homosexual.
Technically there are only two genders.That is a Scientific fact.
What a person or persons 'identifies' as is up to them but they are either male or female.
Apparently Facebook has 70+ genders to choose from :shock:
Live and let live.
Jdsk
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Jdsk »

Hellhound wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 6:39pmTechnically there are only two genders.That is a Scientific fact.
What a person or persons 'identifies' as is up to them but they are either male or female.
What does "technically" and "scientific fact" mean here, please? What's the observational evidence that underlies them?

Thanks

Jonathan
Vorpal
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Vorpal »

The idea that there are only two genders is outdated. The science is clear, though biology & gender are complex topics.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... ansphobia/

Even if you don't believe any of this, isn't it better to be inclusive? To allow folks who believe otherwise to be what they want to be?

edited to add: Here's what the World Health Organization has to say on gender: https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1


p.s. further comments associating non-binary genders with mental illness, jokes about what people identify as, etc. will be removed.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
merseymouth
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Re: Words worth?

Post by merseymouth »

Morning all, The areas of unease over a large proportion of the gender issue will be very evident, from issues arising in women only wards in hospitals, gender specific toilets, single sex schools, but it gets really challenging when one considers that area of total ignorance for us old codgers, the try-on in clothes stores! There is already enough evidence over the use of concealed cameras in many areas that should be safe, even homes, with controlling folk being intrusive with partners. Throw into the mix those who re-assign themselves to a group of choice?
It was bad enough when I was at school, boys only, when one was subjected to the class clown/sicko in the showers, my daughter said it was much the same at her girls school, as has been said previously children can be cruel.
But the dignity of the individual must be respected, so a debate must happen, and indeed a solution that respects all must be provided.
Sadly much conflict is occurring in sport, especially where the basic physical advantages/disadvantages are evident! Many sports could easily be open in all senses, some actually are getting towards that outcome, equine events such as racing, dressage, show-jumping and dressage do it already, after all the horse does the work? But after that we find many areas of real inequality of physical imbalance. Not just weight or else it would be simple, but it is not a level playing field. I can't see a pound for pound match of equality in boxing any time soon?
Even in cycling, the die is cast at creation when the heat is on.
But sadly too many areas in life are equal, but gender definition still intrudes, think just about the Academy Awards, all who tread the boards or who react to the "Action" call are now called gender neutral "Actors", but wait? we still retain "Best Actor/Actress" categories??
Can't be too long before the margins will be tested! Society may have moved on from the shock of April Ashley marrying the Chief Scout's son, but things still ain't hunky dory. MM
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Hellhound
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Hellhound »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 6:41pm
Hellhound wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 6:39pmTechnically there are only two genders.That is a Scientific fact.
What a person or persons 'identifies' as is up to them but they are either male or female.
What does "technically" and "scientific fact" mean here, please? What's the observational evidence that underlies them?
Thanks
Jonathan
My answer was removed.Apparently it was offensive to certain people.That wasn't my intention.
My attempt a humour was obviously taken the wrong way.
As I said above live and let live.
reohn2
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Re: Words worth?

Post by reohn2 »

Vorpal wrote: 8 Oct 2021, 10:48pm Even if you don't believe any of this, isn't it better to be inclusive? To allow folks who believe otherwise to be what they want to be?
Exactly!
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merseymouth
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Re: Words worth?

Post by merseymouth »

But such topics about areas of human condition must be debated. MM
Elizabeth_S
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Elizabeth_S »

Misogyny has a clearly defined meaning. If you meet a woman and treat her with contempt and hatred because she is a woman, it doesn't matter if she's trans or not, it is still misogyny.
You can't say 'I thought she was a woman but she/he/they are not so it isn't/can't be misogyny' because you thought they were a woman in the first place it is misogyny and you are making it even worse by disrespecting trans people. The meaning hasn't changed.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Words worth?

Post by Oldjohnw »

Elizabeth_S wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 4:44pm Misogyny has a clearly defined meaning. If you meet a woman and treat her with contempt and hatred because she is a woman, it doesn't matter if she's trans or not, it is still misogyny.
You can't say 'I thought she was a woman but she/he/they are not so it isn't/can't be misogyny' because you thought they were a woman in the first place it is misogyny and you are making it even worse by disrespecting trans people. The meaning hasn't changed.
Spot on.
John
merseymouth
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Re: Words worth?

Post by merseymouth »

So, The definition of the word "Definition" has gone, too many variables which originate from personal whims or wishes?
Language is supposed to ensure that meanings and intentions are absolutely clear. But henceforth it will mean nothing to nobody, rather like the "<i>[inappropriate word removed]</i>-Head" scene in Red Dwarf? Oversensitivity on steroids. MM
* Wow, I've been auto moderated for using a word that is similar to a fridge make? S.M.E.G. is apparently abusive?? Words such as "M*n & "W*m*N" will be expunged!
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