We Are Eating Less Meat ...

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Carlton green
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Carlton green »

At one time we always used to eat meat as part of our main meal of the day but now we do not. We quite enjoy some of the vegetarian choices and that change has broadened the range of things that we eat - which is normally considered a good thing. Eating less meat is probably greener too, I’m not sure about it being any cheaper though and I’ve no intention of becoming a vegetarian.
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661-Pete
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by 661-Pete »

Maybe the reduction in meat-eating goes hand-in-hand with the decline in traditional British fare, as set down in this article. Seeing as a lot of those dishes involved meat in some form (remember that mincemeat used to contain real meat, and spotted dick* traditionally made with beef suet) - I think the two trends are linked.

I must plead, however, that we still have a liking for bangers-'n-mash. Even if the 'bangers' are in reality (veggie) Glamorgan sausages, and the mash actually comes from potatoes, not some Martian junk... :lol:

*Am I allowed to say those words on the forum?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Oldjohnw »

Even as a child in the 50s we had a couple of meat free days most weeks, not through principle but cost. Mac cheese and cauliflower cheese for example. Jacket potatoes and tinned fish.

So I don't have less meals with meat - pretty well half meat and the rest fish or veg only. But I do eat smaller portions as I get older.
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Psamathe
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Psamathe »

Oldjohnw wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 11:51am Even as a child in the 50s we had a couple of meat free days most weeks, not through principle but cost. Mac cheese and cauliflower cheese for example. Jacket potatoes and tinned fish.

So I don't have less meals with meat - pretty well half meat and the rest fish or veg only. But I do eat smaller portions as I get older.
Interesting that you suggest fish is not meat. Personally I'd include fish as meat (flesh of an animal). I've no idea about official definitions. Reminds me of the Peruvian/Bolivian "es vegetariano con pollo" that happens a fair amount ("it's vegetarian with chicken" - chicken is conidered fine for vegetarians as it's not regarded as meat).

I've not eaten fish for years (I gave-up fish in my teens, gave up meat a few years ago).

Ian
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661-Pete
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by 661-Pete »

I can certainly remember both mac cheese and cauli cheese from my childhood days, too. Perhaps we ought to revive them...

We certainly get into arguments about whether "fish is meat". If it is, we are lying in calling ourselves 'meat-free'. I think the problem is mainly linguistic: the word 'meat' is ill-defined. We might refer to the white flesh of a coconut as the 'meat', even thought it's indisputably veggie! It certainly contains plenty of cholesterol...

I'll stick with limiting the word to mean mammal or bird flesh. It makes me feel more comfortable! :oops:
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661-Pete
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by 661-Pete »

Psamathe wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 12:23pm Reminds me of the Peruvian/Bolivian "es vegetariano con pollo" that happens a fair amount
I think a similar thing happens in France sometimes - you see in the menu fish dishes listed amongst the plats végétariens.

I once read an article about a vegetarian journalist visiting Thailand. It seems that in Thai (and maybe other languages) there is no generic word for 'meat'. So she got busy explaining to the waiter: "I don't eat beef, I don't eat pork, I don't eat chicken, I don't eat fish...." etc. etc.

Eventually the waiter brought her a plateful of live red ants.... :shock:
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simonineaston
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by simonineaston »

I've certainly never seen a need to eat meat in great quantities - have always taken the view the more varied my diet, the more intersting it is, potentially. Fish twice a week / meat same is more than enough dead animals for me ;-)
Sundry friends (mostly male) seem wedded to the brown food diet, none more so that one chum who when buying a burger from a well-known fast food outlet, would ask them to hold, "the mayo, the pickles, the red & the green" and would thus receive his dream burger - a plain pattie in a plain bun... !!
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Oldjohnw
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Oldjohnw »

Meat is meat and fish is fish. I’m not saying moms is better/worse than to the other. Both can have environmental problems. We eat organic and local meat. We don’t each Scottish salmon as it is farmed: only Pacific/Alaskan as Atlantic is endangered. We eat mackerel and sardines/pilchards. Presumably isn’t perfect but then often vegetables aren’t either. They can be sprayed or travel half way around the world.

So, no. As far as I am concerned the one day a week I eat fish is meat free. It isn’t about feeling comfortable, it just it describes my diet.
John
Stevek76
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Stevek76 »

Jdsk wrote: 9 Oct 2021, 10:05am That's a very interesting point. Ssecular changes in a a population can occur because individuals have changed behaviour or because individuals with different behaviour have joined or left the population. I don't know if this study did (or could) distinguish those. Anyone?
Quite possibly, it obviously records age of participants, I'd be surprised if it didn't include immigration status, these things often do. Detailed method reports & vairable lists are available on the UK data service. The data itself looks to just be under basic safeguarded access requirements which just means agreeing to an EUL to not try to identify anyone in the study by crosslinking to other studies.

Regarding people questioning the various estimates reached & self reporting. I'd consider the NDNS to be one of the more reliable around, it's rigoursly sampled to be representative of the population and uses face to face interviews.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Oldjohnw wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 3:21pm Meat is meat and fish is fish. I’m not saying moms is better/worse than to the other. Both can have environmental problems. We eat organic and local meat. We don’t each Scottish salmon as it is farmed: only Pacific/Alaskan as Atlantic is endangered. We eat mackerel and sardines/pilchards. Presumably isn’t perfect but then often vegetables aren’t either. They can be sprayed or travel half way around the world.

So, no. As far as I am concerned the one day a week I eat fish is meat free. It isn’t about feeling comfortable, it just it describes my diet.
What’s the objection to farmed?
Do you not eat farmed veg either?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Oldjohnw »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 3:51pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 3:21pm Meat is meat and fish is fish. I’m not saying moms is better/worse than to the other. Both can have environmental problems. We eat organic and local meat. We don’t each Scottish salmon as it is farmed: only Pacific/Alaskan as Atlantic is endangered. We eat mackerel and sardines/pilchards. Presumably isn’t perfect but then often vegetables aren’t either. They can be sprayed or travel half way around the world.

So, no. As far as I am concerned the one day a week I eat fish is meat free. It isn’t about feeling comfortable, it just it describes my diet.
What’s the objection to farmed?
Do you not eat farmed veg either?
You obvious aren’t aware of the problems of farmed salmon. They carry more sea lice and often escape, passing this on to the wild salmon. And escaped farmed salmon have no home river to spawn in.

https://www.compassioninfoodbusiness.co ... on-farming

Is there a problem with salmon farming? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48266480

And many other reports. Indeed, almost the only supporters are the farmers. I wish you had looked this up instead of the rather unnecessary sarcasm.
John
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661-Pete
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by 661-Pete »

Oldjohnw wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 4:31pm You obvious aren’t aware of the problems of farmed salmon. They carry more sea lice and often escape, passing this on to the wild salmon. And escaped farmed salmon have no home river to spawn in.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I most certainly am aware of these downsides of farmed salmon - and every time we buy some I feel a faint twinge of conscience. Yes - no-one's perfect, and no-one's guilt-free - and we certainly aren't.

The main thing I can say in its favour is that salmon farming produces less CO2 than land animals, per Kg of meat/fish produced.

When we can get it, we go for wild sockeye salmon which is sustainable, albeit somewhat dearer. But it's not always available.

Mussels (rope-grown) are another highly sustainable seafood. We have those quite often. Not to everyone's taste, I suppose.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Oldjohnw
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Oldjohnw »

661-Pete wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 7:54pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 11 Oct 2021, 4:31pm You obvious aren’t aware of the problems of farmed salmon. They carry more sea lice and often escape, passing this on to the wild salmon. And escaped farmed salmon have no home river to spawn in.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I most certainly am aware of these downsides of farmed salmon - and every time we buy some I feel a faint twinge of conscience. Yes - no-one's perfect, and no-one's guilt-free - and we certainly aren't.

The main thing I can say in its favour is that salmon farming produces less CO2 than land animals, per Kg of meat/fish produced.

When we can get it, we go for wild sockeye salmon which is sustainable, albeit somewhat dearer. But it's not always available.

Mussels (rope-grown) are another highly sustainable seafood. We have those quite often. Not to everyone's taste, I suppose.
Fully agree with the above. We don’t eat mussels!

Different things are in conflict with each other and we each have to decide but we cannot ignore science either.

Sometimes I feel guilt eating anything at all!
John
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by pwa »

Prince Charles was on the telly last night, saying (amongst other things) that two days each week he doesn't eat meat or fish. I'd guess he includes poultry in that. He says he has been doing that for several years. If we park the vegetarian / vegan thing to one side and just talk about people who do eat meat and fish, it does seem to me that there are people who have cut down on the amount they consume. And in health terms that is probably a good thing. Eating large quantities of red meat in particular is something that our ancestors did not do, so our guts have not evolved to handle that. Up to fairly recent times red meat was too expensive relative to incomes for most people to eat a lot of it. A healthier relationship with it would be to eat a little at a time, and give it a miss sometimes. Most people like at least one vegetarian meal, even if they don't think of it as such. My Dad used to love egg and chips, or cheese and tomato sandwiches.
Jdsk
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Re: We Are Eating Less Meat ...

Post by Jdsk »

pwa wrote: 12 Oct 2021, 7:49amEating large quantities of red meat in particular is something that our ancestors did not do, so our guts have not evolved to handle that. Up to fairly recent times red meat was too expensive relative to incomes for most people to eat a lot of it.
Humans have been eating meat for more than 2M years, and before H sapiens existed. This might have played a major rôle in the development of the modern human brain.

Our guts look appropriate for the task.

Excluding meat from the diet carries some nutritional risks, although we know how to manage them.

And although it's interesting the evolutionary history isn't particularly relevant to current effects on health. And the arguments from ethics and environmental impact stand on their own merits.

Jonathan
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