National Trust Elections

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Oldjohnw
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by Oldjohnw »

Ben@Forest wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 1:52pm

And of course, the National Trust is in a uniquely political position. It isn't just a charity it's founded by Act of Parliament and has a legal duty. I don't think it does everything wrong but it has a background of being run by (former) civil service and academic apparatchiks who have a tin ear when it comes to what its staff and the public expect or want.
A point of view. I don’t believe for one minute that the NT does it all right. But ministers have been pretty outspoken in their criticism specifically around the NT and black history and slavery. And the government has made no secret of its view that charities should be lead by people in sympathy with government aims. Noth8ng garbled about Tory aspirations in this area.

I’m sure that other individuals standing for election are not up to much. That is the way of such elections. But as far as I am aware, none are part of a group promoted by 20% of the party of government with a very specific agenda.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: National Trust Elections

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A good contribution to the debate from a former chair of the NT:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other
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Ben@Forest
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by Ben@Forest »

Oldjohnw wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 5:25pm A good contribution to the debate from a former chair of the NT:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other
Jenkins is right in that conflating the two issues wasn't smart. And the current DG - Hilary McGrady - said releasing the slavery/colonialism report so close to the George Floyd/BLM protests wasn't great timing, not that I know if that means it 'was unlucky but there you go' or if it was 'I should have delayed the publication for a few months'....
philvantwo
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by philvantwo »

The church of England are another charity always pleading poverty, asking for money to fix the local church roof all the time.
They've got an endowment worth almost 9 billion pounds which generates an income of 1 billion pounds annually.
For the uninitiated thats a thousand million pounds.
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ncutler
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by ncutler »

The thing about the National Trust is that it has historically been very good at preserving and presenting big 'ouses and pretty landscapes, but rather less able to present the bits of 'heritage' that are the living spaces and archeology of most of us.

This is not just about 'woke' or slavery. Go, for instance, to Penrhyn Castle: boggle at the wonderful interiors, the photographs of royal visits, the hagiographic family history, all made possibly by the slate workers of Bethesda. Now go and visit Bethesda ........

Happily this is beginning to change, there is a growing realisation that a fearless and honest history of who we all are is the foundation required for a decent and democratic nation. I don't expect to arrive there in my lifetime, but for those of you who are younger a decent future is worth fighting for.
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Mike Sales
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by Mike Sales »

ncutler wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 7:03pm The thing about the National Trust is that it has historically been very good at preserving and presenting big 'ouses and pretty landscapes, but rather less able to present the bits of 'heritage' that are the living spaces and archeology of most of us.

This is not just about 'woke' or slavery. Go, for instance, to Penrhyn Castle: boggle at the wonderful interiors, the photographs of royal visits, the hagiographic family history, all made possibly by the slate workers of Bethesda. Now go and visit Bethesda ........

Happily this is beginning to change, there is a growing realisation that a fearless and honest history of who we all are is the foundation required for a decent and democratic nation. I don't expect to arrive there in my lifetime, but for those of you who are younger a decent future is worth fighting for.
Too true.
And of course the Pennants made the money to build the castle and buy the quarry off the back of slaves and sugar plantations in Jamaica.
Richard Pennant, 1st Baron Penrhyn fought hard against the abolition of slavery and was given the equivalent of £1.3m in today's money as compensation for the loss of his human property when he lost that campaign. No compensation was given to his slaves.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/penrhy ... lave-trade

Some, like Regain Trust, would object to this "rewriting of history" by the National Trust.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 13 Oct 2021, 9:17pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by Oldjohnw »

It isn’t, of course, re-writing history. It is writing history more completely.
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horizon
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Re: National Trust Elections

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Oldjohnw wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 8:16am Here is a list of such candidates, which include some quite terrifying individuals:
Looking at their website I don't thnk it is as dire as people make out. The National Trust has always been a very conservative (with a small "c") organisation (something to do with conservation perhaps?) and was always going to be dragged kicking and screaming to keep up with the times. And how it keeps up with the times was always going to be controversial.

I've experienced the NT at first hand through my work and what they have done at Lanhydrock for example is both pretty awful and very good: a well presented history set off by a large adventure playground. I think you would have to be pretty thick or completely uneducated not to be able to read between the lines of the history of the place and its family to know what life was like back then for their servants and labourers.
It isn’t, of course, re-writing history. It is writing history more completely.
I agree, and that's after they had acquired the property, mended the roof and persuaded thousands of people to buy a cream tea and a tasteful tea towel. By contrast, the government's contribution over the years has usually consisted of a proposal to build a dual carriagway through the landscape (as with the Golden Cap estate). A more radically minded relative of mine from Germany often used to say about Lanhydrock that, had it been in his homeland, it would by now probably have been the headquarters of a bank and surrounded by security fences.

So I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, whichever way it goes, as my point would be that, thanks to the NT, everyone has got something to argue about and long may that continue.
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mjr
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by mjr »

ncutler wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 7:03pm Happily this is beginning to change, there is a growing realisation that a fearless and honest history of who we all are is the foundation required for a decent and democratic nation. I don't expect to arrive there in my lifetime, but for those of you who are younger a decent future is worth fighting for.
I think it has long been changing. The National Trust acquired the George Inn in Southwark in 1937, Mr Straw's House in the 1980s and the Southwell Workhouse (Notts) in the 1990s. More recently, they've bought places like 575 Wandsworth Road in 2010, and started to populate the servant rooms at grand houses with more rounded stories of the people who worked there. The histories less told are among the NT properties if you want them, but it's often the grand houses like Oxburgh which get the headlines and map symbols.

It'll probably get there, maybe after we've gone, but sooner if a load of aristo-slaver-worshipping throwbacks don't take over the Trust as the latest front in their so-called "culture war".
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Jdsk
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by Jdsk »

Ben@Forest wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 1:52pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 13 Oct 2021, 8:16am Many will have seen items in the press regarding an attempted takeover of the NT. it is all part, in my view, of the government plan to control every institution. They are trying to have a political appointee running the Charity Commission. They have already declared war on the NT on account of its stance over slavery and equalities. Others want to stop attempts to restrict hunting whilst others want to halt all climate work.

Here is a list of such candidates, which include some quite terrifying individuals:

https://www.restoretrust.org.uk/agm-202 ... candidates

And an article on the process:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... SApp_Other

Might I urge any members to use their vote wisely, thoughtfully and well?
This is a curiously garbled interpretation of events. I don't see that because some backbench Tory MPs (59 apparently of 362) back Restore Trust that is a government plan to control every institution. And having read the profiles of the six candidates that Restore Trust are asking their members to vote for only one has a seemingly inappropriate profile and I'd say certainly four of the remaining five have perfectly eminent backgrounds and experience to offer an organisation like the NT - so much so that one of those five is actually on the Nomination Committee's list of recommendations to vote for. Some of the other profiles (there are about 46) are seemingly more inappropriate, less objective, and less experienced choices than those recommended by Restore Trust (though of course that is a subjective choice).
One of the six says that he wasn't even asked:

"Michael Goodhart shocked to see name backed by Restore Trust because he does not support its aims":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ke-backing

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oldtimer99
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by oldtimer99 »

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/in-the-back

I was sent this a couple of weeks ago. Interesting reading
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mjr
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by mjr »

oldtimer99 wrote: 16 Oct 2021, 7:03pm https://www.private-eye.co.uk/in-the-back

I was sent this a couple of weeks ago. Interesting reading
What's it got to do with the National Trust?
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oldtimer99
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by oldtimer99 »

Whoops...incompetence rules. Wrong link...and now can't find the NT one.
thirdcrank
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by thirdcrank »

I see the vote has gone in favour of the ban.

Thinks: It's a charity so the trustees must make their own decision, based on the aims of the charity.
Jdsk
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Re: National Trust Elections

Post by Jdsk »

From what I can tell the reactionary movement didn't make any ground:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ke-critics
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... discontent

Jonathan
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