Debs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 5:14pmremoved by moderator
Please point out to me where I have said that David Amess was a 'perfect saintly Mr nice guy'?
Personally, I'm a remain voting atheist who is pro-abortion and disagreed with a lot of views. The only point I'm making is that people can have opinions that differ from your own without being 'bad' (and it was you who said David Amess only had 'one good bone in his body').
Finally, do you think that perhaps posting on a forum thread entitled 'Sir David Amess MP. RIP' and then stating he only 'one good bone in his body' and comparing his views to a medieval witch finder could perhaps be viewed as being rather offensive?
I'm merely commenting upon the tributes, Amess has been quoted non-stop in the media and Tory press about being Mr Wonderful, but the facts remain very different. He was a member of the Nationalist ERG, a homophobe, and a raving misogynist, complete with evidence of his commons voting practice. The points being is that it should be appropriate for the media to represent these facts without the appalling misrepresentations they have given.
Please stop thinking this is about yourself or about myself, we don't even know each-other, this is about the subject matter of what Amess stood for, and i reiterate; In a democratic society it's paramount to vote right wing politicians out of office. Murdering them is totally abhorrent.
Debs, I'm sure we all understand where you're coming from, but this isn't the time or place.
I have known about David Amess for many years, and can't say I liked the man. Partly because of an odd coincidence which I won't go into here; maybe another time. Enough said.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Debs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 2:58pm
In a democratic society it's paramount to vote right wing politicians out of office. Murdering them is totally abhorrent.
It will be interesting to learn who exactly this murderer is and his warped reasoning...
However we now have a situation which involves the outpouring of sympathy over the criminal death of a very rightwing Brexit-Tory politician who apart from the only one good bone in his body on animal rights, stood for ERG Brexit extremes, supported the return of the death penalty, was a staunch homophobe with his past HoC voting record always voting against GBLT rights, also voted to enshrine sexist Roman Catholic medieval dogma into UK law with banning of abortion rights.
It is very tragic that he was killed while carrying out his democratic duties, and i really do have sympathetic to his family and friends, but i wish the media would stop the puke-bucket non-stop sending him up as Saint David the perfect on the big white horse.
Mr Nice-Guy he was not.
Have you ever considered that somebody can have different views to your own without being 'bad'?
The more I hear about him the worse he seems. In favour of capital punishment, homophobic, hard line member of the ERG, anti abortion and the leading parliamentary apologist for the repulsive Qatari regime, holidaying there a couple of times at the regime's expense.
It's looking like the Qatar connection may be the reason he was killed.
He certainly didn't come out of the parliamentary expenses claims very well either, claiming money for overnight hotel stays in London even though taxpayers were paying his rent on a London house and this despite him owning a London home which he rented out.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Debs wrote: ↑19 Oct 2021, 2:58pm
In a democratic society it's paramount to vote right wing politicians out of office. Murdering them is totally abhorrent.
It will be interesting to learn who exactly this murderer is and his warped reasoning...
However we now have a situation which involves the outpouring of sympathy over the criminal death of a very rightwing Brexit-Tory politician who apart from the only one good bone in his body on animal rights, stood for ERG Brexit extremes, supported the return of the death penalty, was a staunch homophobe with his past HoC voting record always voting against GBLT rights, also voted to enshrine sexist Roman Catholic medieval dogma into UK law with banning of abortion rights.
It is very tragic that he was killed while carrying out his democratic duties, and i really do have sympathetic to his family and friends, but i wish the media would stop the puke-bucket non-stop sending him up as Saint David the perfect on the big white horse.
Mr Nice-Guy he was not.
Have you ever considered that somebody can have different views to your own without being 'bad'?
The more I hear about him the worse he seems. In favour of capital punishment, homophobic, hard line member of the ERG, anti abortion and the leading parliamentary apologist for the repulsive Qatari regime, holidaying there a couple of times at the regime's expense.
It's looking like the Qatar connection may be the reason he was killed.
He certainly didn't come out of the parliamentary expenses claims very well either, claiming money for overnight hotel stays in London even though taxpayers were paying his rent on a London house and this despite him owning a London home which he rented out.
A person can be anti-abortion without being a bad person. All that is required is a belief that there are two human lives involved in a pregnancy, not just one. But on the other points, yes, some unattractive stuff there.
You are not just mourning the death of an individual here. You are expressing deep concerns over the attack on democracy and the proliferation of hate for people who think differently.
He clearly had what most here would call extreme and reactionary views but that doesn’t qualify him for summary execution, which is what happened.
He also voiced concern about the well-being of women in prison.
"To express some sympathy for people who are in prison perhaps is not the cool thing for a Conservative to do," he told the Commons.
"I am grateful for the briefing from the Howard League for Penal Reform, which states that a recent study found that more than 50% of women in prison report a history of violence and trauma, which contributed to 8,317 cases of self-injury in 2017 alone."
He went on to urge the Ministry of Justice to "re-evaluate the practical support that is made available to female inmates".
Frances Crook, chief executive of the Howard League, said: "Sir David Amess was aware that imprisonment is particularly harmful for women, who account for only 4% of the prison population but more than a quarter of all incidents of self-injury behind bars.
"The Howard League is pleased to work with MPs from all political parties, and it was kind of Sir David to thank the charity as he raised this important issue in the House of Commons.
"His death is a loss to his family and friends, and an attack on our democratic and open society."
The above, of which I, to my shame, was unaware, demonstrates just how complex and difficult to pigeonhole most people - perhaps especially politicians - are.
There are a couple of major exceptions: one the Original T and the other the GB mini-T.
"Sometimes, there would be these debates when we'd finished the Parliamentary session and there was a special debate where we could basically mention anything," he said.
"Most people would have a three- or four-minute speech and mention one thing or maybe two things.
"I remember twice hearing Sir David getting up and he would mention 19 or 20 different things to do with his constituency."
During nearly four decades in Parliament, Sir David raised countless number of issues and mentioned many more people and organisations trying to make a difference in Southend.
So, perhaps no need to be ashamed if anybody missed anything
thirdcrank wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 8:07am
From the same link:-
"Sometimes, there would be these debates when we'd finished the Parliamentary session and there was a special debate where we could basically mention anything," he said.
"Most people would have a three- or four-minute speech and mention one thing or maybe two things.
"I remember twice hearing Sir David getting up and he would mention 19 or 20 different things to do with his constituency."
During nearly four decades in Parliament, Sir David raised countless number of issues and mentioned many more people and organisations trying to make a difference in Southend.
So, perhaps no need to be ashamed if anybody missed anything
As someone who has campaigned about women in prison and worked with the Howard League on a number of occasions…
pwa wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 6:28am
A person can be anti-abortion without being a bad person. All that is required is a belief that there are two human lives involved in a pregnancy, not just one.
No they can't. It is one life involved - the woman's. Her choice, her body, her life.
It might be better if arguments over polarising matters such as abortion were elsewhere than on a page showing respect for an individual who has violently lost his life whilst pursuing a precious freedom: that of representing his constituents and trying to take forward their concerns.
Oldjohnw wrote: ↑20 Oct 2021, 8:40am
It might be better if arguments over polarising matters such as abortion were elsewhere than on a page showing respect for an individual who has violently lost his life whilst pursuing a precious freedom: that of representing his constituents and trying to take forward their concerns.
This is the problem with online obituaries like this. The violent death of a human being is repugnant and when the deceased is a democratically elected representative carrying out that role it only adds to the enormity of the event.
IMO, this places a responsibility on those posting eulogies to be careful what they write from behind a traditional wall of privilege.
I'm saying that this is an online obituary, and one of the features of an internet forum is that everybody can comment. IMO, this means that if the people praising the deceased say something others disagree with, then it's unrealistic to expect everybody to avoid criticism, some of it outspoken.
On the specific matter of prison reform, I was aware that it was one of your fields of interest and when I saw the bit I linked I was intrigued why you had not mentioned it. I fancy the reality is that some hack (Phil Space?) with the job of digging out some extra material discovered that intervention in parliament who then approached the Howard League for comment. In these days of media training and in the aftermath of his death, they came up with something bland. ie He's perhaps not the natural successor of Elizabeth Fry or John Howard
