In case anyone is in any doubt just how corrupt politics is in the UK

[reohn2]

https://youtu.be/8v4JC_3C-Mo

[reohn2]

https://youtu.be/GxJgls89N_M

[reohn2]

Jess Philips the antidote to the corrupt and sick politics now being peddled by the Tories:- https://youtu.be/2OkMVr_HyTM

[Bonefishblues]

I think Jess Phillips is a fine person and MP. I wish I had one like her, but hell would likely freeze over and then some...

[Tangled Metal]

Gets on well with Rees Mogg apparently. Left wing corbynites like to attack her and she supports a women's organisation/ lobby group that is described as transphobic for opposing trans rights that overrides women's rights. Yep! She sounds better than I used to think.

Especially the one about Corbyn attack dogs going after her. Just read an article on the Jacobin website about her as an example. Think I'd like her more as labour leader if the tories had a good leader too. That way she'd help guarantee another tory GE win! More chance of her leading labour than getting a good tory leader right now. I'll say it again, the reason we have a truly dodgy tory party right now is down to a truly pathetic main opposition party in labour. For corruption you need corruption and/or incompetence in the two main parties. We have that in spades!

I've simply stopped caring. Let the shoot happen and I'll continue to try to get by.

[Tangled Metal]

I've do Tim Fallon, libdem. If you've ever met him you'd know he's a decent guy. A very good constituency mp who's got the party power thing out of his system. Seems to have no ambition other than to fight for his constituency.

He's currently active in the local hospital review. AIUI he forced a public review on the stupid idea to shut royal Lancaster infirmary and other ones too. Replacing them with just the Preston hospital for the very large area. Imagine needing an ambulance in South Cumbria or north Lancashire and the nearest A&E is Preston 35 to 60 minutes away!!!!

[reohn2]

I'll say it again, the reason we have a truly dodgy tory party right now is down to a truly pathetic main opposition party in labour.

Of course it must all be the Labour party's fault surely?
It couldn't possibly be the Tories and it's financiers looking after and featheringntheir own corrupt nests by pouring money into their cffers and spreading lies and charachter assination of Corbyn could it?

For corruption you need corruption and/or incompetence in the two main parties. We have that in spades!

Well it's there for all to see in the Tory party and has been for years,perhaps you could show us the "spades" in the Labour party,I'm not denying the isn't any but no where near what goes on with the Tories.

I've simply stopped caring. Let the shoot happen and I'll continue to try to get by.

You cared enough to make a comment on this thread though.

[reohn2]

I've do Tim Fallon, libdem. If you've ever met him you'd know he's a decent guy. A very good constituency mp who's got the party power thing out of his system. Seems to have no ambition other than to fight for his constituency.

He's currently active in the local hospital review. AIUI he forced a public review on the stupid idea to shut royal Lancaster infirmary and other ones too. Replacing them with just the Preston hospital for the very large area. Imagine needing an ambulance in South Cumbria or north Lancashire and the nearest A&E is Preston 35 to 60 minutes away!!!!

Tim Fallon is an all round good egg and always has been AFAIK.

[Tangled Metal]

Incompetence examples from past leadership includes Corbyn, Diane Abbott, you've got jess Phillips putting her foot in it a lot too. Don't forget anyone from labour top team denying they screwed up dealing with antisemitism issue. Even ignoring whether you believe there's a problem the way they dealt with it and the optics of it was incompetence.

Then IMHO working for unions or funded by unions is a bad as tory second jobs or business funding. Obviously you won't agree with any of that.

I just see the whole Westminster mess as a stinking pile of self interest masquerading as democracy or politics.

As to not caring about the Westminster cesspit but caring enough to comment on here section of your snippety reply post IMO it's not the same thing. I've stopped caring about what the latest corruption or incompetence is but I do still have an opinion to express, especially when it seems on here that there's a blinkered view on the cesspit that's parliament.

Back to incompetence. When Corbyn was labour leader it was telling to note how many times he ducked out of PMQs to leave it to the more effective members of his top table. If you're a leader of the opposition and your communication skills aren't aren't good enough to hold the PM to account in the partisan pmqs then there's definitely something wrong and that's not down to right wing media bias/propaganda/ character assassination but his own absence from the job he chose to step up to do.

[slowster]

Incompetence examples from past leadership includes...Diane Abbott

What incompetence on the part of Diane Abbott?

[Tangled Metal]

I believe there's a big story about how Boris stumbled during a speech when he lost his place in his notes. Lots of delighted opinion givers in left leaving papers saying how he's finished. It was a fluffing of his lines and not even a matter of getting the details of his brief wrong. Bad optics but not incompetence, he's got other matters to show that up.

A good few years back Abbott was on TV or radio talking about her brief in Corbyns/opposition Labour shadow cabinet. She floundered big time in a way that wasn't just bad pr image or optics but incompetence with figures that really should have been known and understood. However that was written off as right wing media bias. OK one case but back then she had quite a run of those poor understanding or control of her brief. Eventually she stopped getting put in front of the media. That's not a right wing media bias but her own party leadership benching her in favour of more competent people like Raynor.

[slowster]

A good few years back Abbott was on TV or radio talking about her brief in Corbyns/opposition Labour shadow cabinet. She floundered big time in a way that wasn't just bad pr image or optics but incompetence with figures that really should have been known and understood. However that was written off as right wing media bias. OK one case but back then she had quite a run of those poor understanding or control of her brief. Eventually she stopped getting put in front of the media. That's not a right wing media bias but her own party leadership benching her in favour of more competent people like Raynor.

I don't recall those. Can you give examples apart from the one case you have cited about getting her figures wrong?

[Psamathe]

I believe there's a big story about how Boris stumbled during a speech when he lost his place in his notes. Lots of delighted opinion givers in left leaving papers saying how he's finished. It was a fluffing of his lines and not even a matter of getting the details of his brief wrong. Bad optics but not incompetence, he's got other matters to show that up.....

I agree losing place in speech and stumbling a bit is not incompetence but his remaining leader/PM requires that enough Conservative MPs still regard him as a vote/election winner. If they feel he's losing that ability then it's all contributory factors in his being replaced. And he's made quite a few blunders recently, none fatal to him staying leader but all contributory in party unhappiness, each another straw on the camel's back. And some of those blunders are vote losers for some MPs which makes it worse.

Ian

[reohn2]

Incompetence examples from past leadership includes Corbyn, Diane Abbott, you've got jess Phillips putting her foot in it a lot too. Don't forget anyone from labour top team denying they screwed up dealing with antisemitism issue. Even ignoring whether you believe there's a problem the way they dealt with it and the optics of it was incompetence.

The truth is there is antisemitism within the Labour Party,but no where near as bad as the media made out AFAICT.
Criticising Israel for it's foreign policies which is something that needs doing and which Corbyn did because it was needed and is NOT antisemitism!
Now lets have chapter and verse on the incompetence of the Labour manifesto at the last GE,and whilst we're at it let's not forget the lies and charachter assasination of Corbyn spread far and wide by the media owned by the Tory supporting billionaires,and oligarchs who laundermtheir ill gotten gains in offshore UK satalite islands.

Then IMHO working for unions or funded by unions is a bad as tory second jobs or business funding. Obviously you won't agree with any of that

The Labour Party is the the Trade Unions it was founded by the Trade Unions as a bastion against the evil Tories who treated the working wo/man like dirt on their shoes!
You and I wouldn't have the better working conditions and better living standards without the Trade Unions support for the working wo/man!

I just see the whole Westminster mess as a stinking pile of self interest masquerading as democracy or politics.

There's certainly a very large element of that within Westminster but it's mostly the coming frommthe Tory beches,please look atmthe state of the nation under ten years under Tory rule and tell memthijgs would've been any worse under Corbyn.

As to not caring about the Westminster cesspit but caring enough to comment on here section of your snippety reply post IMO it's not the same thing. I've stopped caring about what the latest corruption or incompetence is but I do still have an opinion to express, especially when it seems on here that there's a blinkered view on the cesspit that's parliament

What's being shownnhere is the total mismanagement of the country by a totally corrupt govenment.
Do you deny that corruption a lies and sleazy or is it all the Labour Party's fault?

Back to incompetence. When Corbyn was labour leader it was telling to note how many times he ducked out of PMQs to leave it to the more effective members of his top table. If you're a leader of the opposition and your communication skills aren't aren't good enough to hold the PM to account in the partisan pmqs then there's definitely something wrong and that's not down to right wing media bias/propaganda/ character assassination but his own absence from the job he chose to step up to do.

I'm on record on the forum saying Corbyn was no statesman,but he was a better leader by far than the present PM and would've made a far better PM than the present excuse.For a start he's an honest and honourable man of principle,perhaps not such good charachteristics for the cesspit of Westminster!

As for Diane Abbot,she's a fine MP for her consituency perhaps you could check her track record against Johnson's or any other MP FTM before condemning her.

[reohn2]

I believe there's a big story about how Boris stumbled during a speech when he lost his place in his notes. Lots of delighted opinion givers in left leaving papers saying how he's finished. It was a fluffing of his lines and not even a matter of getting the details of his brief wrong. Bad optics but not incompetence, he's got other matters to show that up.

A good few years back Abbott was on TV or radio talking about her brief in Corbyns/opposition Labour shadow cabinet. She floundered big time in a way that wasn't just bad pr image or optics but incompetence with figures that really should have been known and understood. However that was written off as right wing media bias. OK one case but back then she had quite a run of those poor understanding or control of her brief. Eventually she stopped getting put in front of the media. That's not a right wing media bias but her own party leadership benching her in favour of more competent people like Raynor.

It's one thing loosing your thread in a speech because your notes got mixed up but quite another continuing to ramble on about Peppa Pig for quarter of an hour!
Any sane man would've apologised,stopped held up his hand,sorted out his notes and then carried on with the speech as intended.
But Johnson being Johnson said the first thing that came into his head,rambled on about it and showed himself up for what he is,incompetent buffoon.
If your happy for your PM to act in such a way(which by now half the world will have seen it) you leave me lost for words other than to say.
Have you seen Nadine Dorries lastest interview:- https://youtu.be/yqwJGKjo4xk another Tory minister way out of her depth,the latest in a long line of Tory incompetents,the list is endless!