More policing by social media

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Post Reply
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

More policing by social media

Post by thirdcrank »

A report of a potentially horrific lorry crash, with fortunately only minor injury

Lorry driver walks away from M1 horror smash in Derbyshire
The first lorry was slowing down following a tyre blow-out on the M1 near Chesterfield on Tuesday when the second lorry hit it from behind.
That sounds like careless driving at a minimum.
"The driver is incredibly lucky to escape death," they (police on twitter) said.

"Small cut to head and hopefully buying a lottery ticket.
Does anybody wonder why juries are so reluctant to convict when this sort of driving kills or injures people?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-59489425
cycle tramp
Posts: 3479
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: More policing by social media

Post by cycle tramp »

thirdcrank wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 6:18pm A report of a potentially horrific lorry crash, with fortunately only minor injury

Lorry driver walks away from M1 horror smash in Derbyshire
The first lorry was slowing down following a tyre blow-out on the M1 near Chesterfield on Tuesday when the second lorry hit it from behind.
That sounds like careless driving at a minimum.
"The driver is incredibly lucky to escape death," they (police on twitter) said.

"Small cut to head and hopefully buying a lottery ticket.
Does anybody wonder why juries are so reluctant to convict when this sort of driving kills or injures people?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-59489425
A good few years ago, it was felt by the prosecuting body, that if someone caused major damage to their own vehicle due to their own negligence, that was enough to warrant 'punishment' for that crime. The driver which was lucky enough to escape death, was the driver who was travelling too close, and as the tractor unit looks to be a write off, I suspect that the same driver will pay more attention next time. It is more than possible that the driver may experience some mental health issues following the collision and even have lost their nerve to drive. At which point legal prosecution may be a moot point.
It's time to go :-)
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 756
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: More policing by social media

Post by Hellhound »

It was an accident.
No need to prosecute anyone.
The 'prosecute this and prosecute' that mentality of the UK,especially where motorists are concerned,is a joke :roll:
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: More policing by social media

Post by [XAP]Bob »

No - driving into the back of someone isn't an "accident" it's a failure to drive with sufficient care and attention. It is indicative of a habit which kills and maims thousands of people every year.

Having a tyre failure on a reasonably recently inspected tyre is an accident.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 756
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: More policing by social media

Post by Hellhound »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 12:38pm No - driving into the back of someone isn't an "accident" it's a failure to drive with sufficient care and attention. It is indicative of a habit which kills and maims thousands of people every year.
Having a tyre failure on a reasonably recently inspected tyre is an accident.
OK so the bloke deliberately drove into the back then?No it was an accident.
Maybe if the ridiculous 56mph limit was lifted there wouldn't be long lines of HGVs following each other like train carriages.
francovendee
Posts: 3145
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: More policing by social media

Post by francovendee »

Lack of due care and attention. Liable to being charged, quite rightly so.
It shouldn't need someone to die before poor driving like this faces a penalty.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: More policing by social media

Post by thirdcrank »

The point I've repeatedly tried to make is that under the RTA 1988, dangerous/careless/inconsiderate driving are defined in accordance with what would be expected of a competent and careful driver. If it's accepted that an HGV driver - subject to more testing than the rest of us - can drive so close to the vehicle in front that they cannot stop in time to avoid a crash and still be considered to be driving at the expected standard, the coincidence of somebody being killed is irrelevant because they are not driving dangerously//carelessly.
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: More policing by social media

Post by mattheus »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 12:38pm No - driving into the back of someone isn't an "accident" it's a failure to drive with sufficient care and attention. It is indicative of a habit which kills and maims thousands of people every year.

Having a tyre failure on a reasonably recently inspected tyre is an accident.
They are probably both accidents.

(unless the driver meant to nail the HGV in front, or someone sabotaged their tyre.)

The main cause of this crash is quite probably lack of care and attention.

Please don't try to distort the meaning of common words, it doesn't help anyone; just creates confusion and misinformation.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: More policing by social media

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Oxford Languages definitions, as supplied to Google:
  • an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
  • an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.
I am not suggesting that it was intentional, but it wasn't unexpected. And there is a clear cause.

I don't think it matches either definition of accident.

It was an incident, and an entirely preventable one (one party simply needed to drive with due care and attention to the task at hand).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 756
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: More policing by social media

Post by Hellhound »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 3:43pm Oxford Languages definitions, as supplied to Google:
  • an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
  • an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.
I am not suggesting that it was intentional, but it wasn't unexpected. And there is a clear cause.
I don't think it matches either definition of accident.
I do.
So there you go.You don't think it does,I think it does.Did the driver expect to run into the back of another HGV,no of course he didn't.Did it happen by chance,yes because the HGV in front had a blowout so sudden loss off speed.
Accident.
There's probably a good reason why most(all) posters on this Forum aren't traffic police :lol:
Stick to cycling.
User avatar
NUKe
Posts: 4161
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 11:07pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: More policing by social media

Post by NUKe »

I remember the Chief Constable of Essex being asked after a multi-car pile up in foggy conditions being asked if the weather was the cause of the accidents . He replied no the weather did not cause the accident bad driving caused the accidents., I would say the same applies here, it not just an accident the driver was too close/not concentrating etc, but the drivers fell short of the competence required.
NUKe
_____________________________________
Mike Sales
Posts: 7860
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: More policing by social media

Post by Mike Sales »

Hellhound wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 4:20pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 3:43pm Oxford Languages definitions, as supplied to Google:
  • an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
  • an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause.
I am not suggesting that it was intentional, but it wasn't unexpected. And there is a clear cause.
I don't think it matches either definition of accident.
I do.
So there you go.You don't think it does,I think it does.Did the driver expect to run into the back of another HGV,no of course he didn't.Did it happen by chance,yes because the HGV in front had a blowout so sudden loss off speed.
Accident.
There's probably a good reason why most(all) posters on this Forum aren't traffic police :lol:
Stick to cycling.
Highway Code, Rule 125 extract.
You should

leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance (see Typical Stopping Distances diagram)
allow at least a two-second gap between you and the vehicle in front on high-speed roads and in tunnels where visibility is reduced. The gap should be at least doubled on wet roads and up to ten times greater on icy roads
remember, large vehicles and motorcycles need a greater distance to stop. If driving a large vehicle in a tunnel, you should allow a four-second gap between you and the vehicle in front
The Code makes it clear that a driver should leave sufficient distance to the vehicle in front to cope with such an incident.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: More policing by social media

Post by thirdcrank »

Looking at this down the other end of the spyglass, what purpose do the police serve in a case like this, in addition to, say, National Highways traffic officers if enforcement is a non-starter? You don't need much training or experience to joke on social media.
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: More policing by social media

Post by mattheus »

NUKe wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 4:32pm I remember the Chief Constable of Essex being asked after a multi-car pile up in foggy conditions being asked if the weather was the cause of the accidents . He replied no the weather did not cause the accident bad driving caused the accidents*., I would say the same applies here, it not just an accident the driver was too close/not concentrating etc, but the drivers fell short of the competence required.
Weird, because the police generally compile reports that list multiple causes of crashes. (e.g. excess speed, inattention, plus slippery surface - that sort of combination)
Which is as it should be - anyone involved in matters like safety at work will know this. There is rarely one cause, and it's quite common for more than one person to carry some of the blame.

Attempts at simplistic analysis are rarely helpful, and smack of grandstanding.

*interesting choice of words there ...
User avatar
ncutler
Moderator
Posts: 1471
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 5:29pm
Location: Forest of Bowland Lancashire
Contact:

Re: More policing by social media

Post by ncutler »

When I was learning to drive one of the tenets of safety, possibly the most important, was always be able to stop safely if anything happens in front of you. Plainly there are exceptions that one can't always avoid: blind lunatics pulling out of side roads, overenthusiastic children and pets running across the road in blinkers, bit as general rule it does preserve life and bodywork.
The same applies to bicycles, aircraft, yachts, roller skaters, tuk-tuks and, though I have no personal experience, marathon runners.
Getting too close and bashing into another vehicle is always going to be the result of negligence and not accidental.
No pasaran
Post Reply