Electric cars

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Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:13pmHow many of the much lauded (at the time) private suppliers have gone bust in the last 6 months? 20?
25 in 2021:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16834791 ... ur-pocket/

... so far.

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Electric cars

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:16pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:13pm My local Tesco offers free charging.

I believe it is just that, free, don't know if there is a time constraint.
Has three or four points, presumably (?) fairly low speed charging.
Shop hours only, so not "off peak".
"They can use the 7kW chargers along with 22kW rapid chargers where available for free, while 50kW rapid chargers are available for the market rate."
https://www.tescoplc.com/updates/2021/t ... 0-charges/

Jonathan
It must be having an effect on "demand".
My humble abode runs on almost 2kwh a day.
A day!
Like to get it under it really.

An hour's 50kw fast charge runs my house, for say, 20 days.

Now that's proper green. 8)

Ps. Perhaps I should invest in a leccy car ( :shock:) and run the house!!
Or get a very very long cable.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 7 Dec 2021, 5:31pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:23pmIt must be having an effect on "demand".
"Can the grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars?":
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... ctric-cars

"How will the growth of electric vehicles impact the grid?":
https://www.electricnation.org.uk/wp-co ... e-grid.pdf

... the latter is from 2017 and anything more recent and not from the National Grid or an energy supplier would be appreciated...

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Electric cars

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:28pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:23pmIt must be having an effect on "demand".
"Can the grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars?":
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... ctric-cars

"How will the growth of electric vehicles impact the grid?":
https://www.electricnation.org.uk/wp-co ... e-grid.pdf

... the latter is from 2017 and anything more recent and not from the National Grid or an energy supplier would be appreciated...

Jonathan
So given the "laws" of supply and demand and the growth of "cheap" renewables, why do domestic kwh costs keep on rising so steeply?

And how come Tesco can give away 22kw (X4) of peak time leccy for nothing.

It doesn't add up. (No pun etc)
ANTONISH
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Re: Electric cars

Post by ANTONISH »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:36pm
Jdsk wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:28pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:23pmIt must be having an effect on "demand".
"Can the grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars?":
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... ctric-cars

"How will the growth of electric vehicles impact the grid?":
https://www.electricnation.org.uk/wp-co ... e-grid.pdf

... the latter is from 2017 and anything more recent and not from the National Grid or an energy supplier would be appreciated...

Jonathan
So given the "laws" of supply and demand and the growth of "cheap" renewables, why do domestic kwh costs keep on rising so steeply?

And how come Tesco can give away 22kw (X4) of peak time leccy for nothing.

It doesn't add up. (No pun etc)
I don't think they actually give it away - it's one of the overheads that have to come out of what Tesco sells. So I suppose it's the other customers like yourself ( it probably won't be itemised on your bill :mrgreen: )
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:28pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:23pmIt must be having an effect on "demand".
"Can the grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars?":
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... ctric-cars

"How will the growth of electric vehicles impact the grid?":
https://www.electricnation.org.uk/wp-co ... e-grid.pdf

... the latter is from 2017 and anything more recent and not from the National Grid or an energy supplier would be appreciated...
Report from the Commons Transport Select Committee, July 2021:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... tAnchor058

... also includes comments on secondhand EVs and on rural areas, as discussed above.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

ANTONISH wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:46pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:36pm
Jdsk wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:28pm "Can the grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars?":
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... ctric-cars

"How will the growth of electric vehicles impact the grid?":
https://www.electricnation.org.uk/wp-co ... e-grid.pdf

... the latter is from 2017 and anything more recent and not from the National Grid or an energy supplier would be appreciated...
So given the "laws" of supply and demand and the growth of "cheap" renewables, why do domestic kwh costs keep on rising so steeply?

And how come Tesco can give away 22kw (X4) of peak time leccy for nothing.

It doesn't add up. (No pun etc)
I don't think they actually give it away - it's one of the overheads that have to come out of what Tesco sells. So I suppose it's the other customers like yourself...
I've always assumed that it's brand management. Any estimates of the energy and cost to them? And is there any governmental subsidy into schemes such as this?

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Electric cars

Post by PDQ Mobile »

ANTONISH wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:46pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:36pm
Jdsk wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:28pm
"Can the grid cope with the extra demand from electric cars?":
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... ctric-cars

"How will the growth of electric vehicles impact the grid?":
https://www.electricnation.org.uk/wp-co ... e-grid.pdf

... the latter is from 2017 and anything more recent and not from the National Grid or an energy supplier would be appreciated...

Jonathan
So given the "laws" of supply and demand and the growth of "cheap" renewables, why do domestic kwh costs keep on rising so steeply?

And how come Tesco can give away 22kw (X4) of peak time leccy for nothing.

It doesn't add up. (No pun etc)
I don't think they actually give it away - it's one of the overheads that have to come out of what Tesco sells. So I suppose it's the other customers like yourself ( it probably won't be itemised on your bill :mrgreen: )
You are probably right.
Though for Mr (or Mrs) Tesla that is the case.

Off to Lidl or Aldi then. :wink:
axel_knutt
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Re: Electric cars

Post by axel_knutt »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:13pm My local Tesco offers free charging.

I believe it is just that, free, don't know if there is a time constraint.
Has three or four points, presumably (?) fairly low speed charging.
A couple of days ago I noticed there are three or four new charging points in the railway station car park, one was in use and the others were all blocked by petrol cars.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

axel_knutt wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 6:23pmA couple of days ago I noticed there are three or four new charging points in the railway station car park, one was in use and the others were all blocked by petrol cars.
"ICEing"

Jonathan
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Hellhound
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Hellhound »

KM2 wrote: 6 Dec 2021, 9:25pm When electric cars are in the majority, will the poorer members of society be able to drive?
You will not be able to pick up a older car because the battery health is likely to be so poor and people won’t be able to afford replacements.
How’s that going to impact on getting to work?
Don't you mean if they become the majority?
It will take years for all the ICE cars currently out there to cease running.Probably decades.I can't see EV being the majority in the next 20 or 30 years.That will see me out 8)
If they eventually do take over the 'next best thing' will be thrust upon us and EV will be the next environmental pariah,taxed to the hilt via astronomical charging fees to make the 'next best thing' look more inviting :roll:
'They' probably have EV replacement vehicles on the drawing board just waiting for the right time to force them upon drivers.This will no doubt happen just about the time EVs are the only choice in about 30 years when they've made Petrol/Diesel so expensive that only the wealthy can afford to keep their now 'Classic' weekend toys :wink: Then they'll sting the public for the disposal of all the useless battery banks :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thankfully I won't be around then 8)
francovendee
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Re: Electric cars

Post by francovendee »

Mick F wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 2:07pm The poorer members of society round here have cheap secondhand cars to get to work.
Therefore, I agree with the OP.

Secondhand electric cars will be too expensive, and the older ones will be scrapped because the batteries will be too expensive to replace. Cars are scrapped these days, not because they are rust buckets, but because of electronics or a system failure. Too expensive and non-economic to fix.

We sold our Clio some years ago. Bought brand new in 2001, and kept for 12years and done over 100,000miles.
Sold it locally for £350.

Meanwhile, one of the electronic key fobs had packed up yonks back. Only a Renault part, and it would have cost £200 for a new one, so we sold the car with the one key and the bits for the other one.

£350 car with a key needing £200. It's a small step to write a car off just for "bits".

Throw-away society.
I'd agree with all you say. Car engines last for 100000's miles, cars don't rust but electrical component fail and can be very expensive to replace. There are electronic component in EV's so the problems won't have gone by swapping from an ICE car.
I've run old cars for most of my life and usually fixed them myself. A trip to the scrappy and you'd get what you wanted for smal amounts of cash. Modern cars have matched or have to be matched components so it's not as feasible to swap bits out.
This has already made it harder for poor people to run a car. Add to this the large cost of battery replacements and it will put car ownership beyond many poorly paid people. Rural areas have little or no bus services so do these peope move or lose their job?
I've got nothing against EV's but if you're poor I can't see how you could afford to get one.
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Mick F
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Mick F »

ANTONISH wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:16pm There are large numbers of people reliant on a cheap ICE vehicle to get to work - often the journey is difficult or impossible by public transport if one is to be punctual. Many of these people are on incomes which barely cover their day to day expenses - they are lucky if they have a few hundred pounds available for emergencies. Even if they were given a free secondhand EV that needed a new battery pack they would be unable to raise the cash.
EV's are a nice idea but they aren't a solution - unless you are one of those relatively wealthy.
I can see the UK being like Cuba - keeping many elderly vehicles running far into the future.
Utterly agree on those points.
Mick F. Cornwall
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squeaker
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Location: Sussex

Re: Electric cars

Post by squeaker »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Dec 2021, 5:36pmSo given the "laws" of supply and demand and the growth of "cheap" renewables, why do domestic kwh costs keep on rising so steeply?
Because the majority of UK electricity is still generated using gas and nuclear. The latter has never been 'too cheap to meter' and the price of the former has gone up a bit recently :roll:
"42"
KM2
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Re: Electric cars

Post by KM2 »

What is the percentage loss of electricity within the grid system?

Do you think the people in the NE, at present, would be advocating an all electric lifestyle?
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