More on the discrimination vein (but not LGBT)

[Peyote]

Yes, it is easy to go to the extreme with it, but outside of that, being individual is better. You can have lots of people agreeing on something, but that just makes them individuals who agree, nothing else.

You should not ass/u/me anything based on a label on someones forehead.

Imagine if every time you met someone they called you an idiot cyclist with no consideration for the rules of the road or society. Does that sum you up? If so, go away

Labels are easy. We need to stop being so lazy.

Yeah, yeah! I was just playing 'devils advocate'!

[glueman]

David, you chose to elide the fact I eat meat with issues like racism. Then compound the insult by stressing your 'individuality' as an excuse. Follow the thread and show me the bit where you don't come across as foolish and humourless.

[david143]

David, you chose to elide the fact I eat meat with issues like racism. Then compound the insult by stressing your 'individuality' as an excuse. Follow the thread and show me the bit where you don't come across as foolish and humourless.

I choose to be an individual no matter what you say and think.

Fact that I choose to not eat meat, choose what my faith is, choose whether to be racist, choose to align myself with others on certain matters is all individual choice. I don't think you or anyone else should be placing labels on people.

Sorry you feel it necessary to be nasty about it

Again I find I must say good bye to you.

[glueman]

toodle pip

[meic]

David seems to have a point. It is very difficult to get across an idea outside of peoples thinking patterns.
If you allow the labels you apply for ease of coping with excess data, to become a reality in your mind.

In 1997 I described myself as left wing of Tony Blair and right of Adolf Hitler. The point being that it is not a simple 1 dimensional spectrum.

Of course now Blair's image has been peeled off the statement loses its effect

[glueman]

David did have a point. He lost it when he said "Never accept what others say as coming from an individual, it is what recumbent owners, vegi's, religious people, that race, etc would say".
At that point he sounded like a grumpy teenager. If he's 17 I forgive him. It's almost impossible to discuss a subject like vegetarianism, particularly under a forum heading, without using the term 'vegetarians'.
One or two may indeed not eat meat because an inter-stellar traveller told them it's bad or they find a pork loin aesthetically wanting compared to a bunch of spring onions but generally 'vegetarians' of my aquaintance say it's for animal welfare reasons, health worries or they dislike the taste.

Those reasons do not need further explanation, certainly not a claim of individual enlightenment as a rationale. And definitely not by infering racism in those who fancy the occasional lamb hotpot.

[meic]

I think the sheep would see the racist angle

[david143]

Unfortunately, one person here only wants a fight; and it isn't me. I already walked away from this person on a thread where they insisted on labeling all recumbent owners as one. As such, I tried to point out that I am just a person who happens to own a recumbent, rather than taking on any sort of special mantle that comes with ownership.

Just like cyclists are all lumped together and anything any one cyclist does is perceived to be done by all cyclists, especially if it is bad.

Such is the way of labels. If it takes a 17 year old to see that, then perhaps more should act and think as a 17 year old.

I do take exception to continued stupid attacks though. Hopefully they will stop before they have to be stopped by others.

[glueman]

David, those attacks are coming from you but you can't or won't see it. I made it clear that lifestyle choices should be left to the individual so long as they don't push them down other people's throats. I know people who ride recumbent bicycles and are vegetarian, I hope they do it because they enjoy their choices, not because it lends them faux individuality.
Now stop seeing conflict where none exists and engage in the debate at a level beyond victim status.

[david143]

David, those attacks are coming from you but you can't or won't see it. I made it clear that lifestyle choices should be left to the individual so long as they don't push them down other people's throats. I know people who ride recumbent bicycles and are vegetarian, I hope they do it because they enjoy their choices, not because it lends them faux individuality.
Now stop seeing conflict where none exists and engage in the debate at a level beyond victim status.

"A typical recumbent riders reply if I may say so David, lots of outrage and misplaced defensiveness. Their riders look like John Cleese doing the Ministry of Silly Walks too."

The above is what you wrote in another thread to me.

Yes, I have a choice, but why do you insist on labeling me and others like this? No need for it at all, and it is offensive.

I raised labels in this thread because labels are a lot of the problems we have these days. Being vegi means I do get asked why a lot, and it also means when out, I must check what is suitable every time almost.....

and being a recumbent rider means I pedal on a bike/trike in what I think is a far better position. It provides no insight in to anything, and does not provide me with any sort of sheep mentality as you suggest in the quoted text.

You and most others use labels badly, IMHO. Get rid of the labels and start to think about individual communication instead.

As soon as you label someone, or a group, as being X, there is no longer any point in communicating a POV. Such labeling says you are not open to discussion as anything said is likely viewed as "A typical (label name) reply" response like you gave me, and that goes nowhere.

BTW- I am NEVER a victim!!! I just don't think you are being nice and I have no desire to get in to a fight.

[glueman]

In my world it's still okay to say certain things look odd. It's an emotional response I'm aware is conditioning, prejudice, preference, etc. Riding a recumbent bike, unlike race or gender preference, is a choice. None of this has anything to do with vegetarianism but you've chosen to depict me as an all-purpose politically incorrect bully because I don't share your lifestyle choices.

I don't think you're being nice either.

[david143]

In my world it's still okay to say certain things look odd. It's an emotional response I'm aware is conditioning, prejudice, preference, etc. Riding a recumbent bike, unlike race or gender preference, is a choice. None of this has anything to do with vegetarianism but you've chosen to depict me as an all-purpose politically incorrect bully because I don't share your lifestyle choices.

I don't think you're being nice either.

You missed the point 100%. You labelled all recumbent owners as having the same thought patterns with your statement I quoted.

You need to look at the title of this thread. It isn't just about vegetarianism. It is about discrimination. Something you appear happy to do with recumbent owners, which is the point I have been trying to make with you.

Discrimination isn't just race, colour, or religion.

Cyclist are discriminated against on the roads. You discriminate against recumbent owners. Others discriminate against veggie's, and so the list of labels people use to discriminate goes on.

Discrimination would be harder if everyone stopped using labels. If you didn't label me as a recumbent owner, you would never of made the statement I have been on about.

Do you get my point yet?

[glueman]

I don't discriminate against anyone except pedants, nit-pickers, rivet counters, the self-important and the obnoxious! You wanna derail this thread off veggies and onto low bikes? Go ahead. I responded to an enquiry about recumbents from the experience of someone who has tried a variety owned by someone else who collects the things. I didn't want to explain that because I'd rather make non-commital noises than say, "having tried your latest machine mate, I think you've just blown four grand. Again."

Some owners make claims for them that are not born out by my experience though I'm prepared to believe there's one I haven't tried that will transform my views. Having ridden low trikes and bikes I was more than happy to get back on a traditional bicycle, not least because I live in a very hilly area and would spend 90% of my time toiling up hillsides in comedy gears, to descend the other side very quickly.
That opinion is apparently prejudicial or the wrong answer. I should say all recumbents are fantastic and you'll never go back to a DF having tried one. In other words, lie through my teeth to keep the recumbent mafia off my scent.
As I explained previously, the most honest answer is I don't care about recumbents one way or another - if I like the rider it won't make a damn bit of difference what they ride.

How you can allow yourself to combine this with my attitude to meat eating and come up with a grotesque caricature says a great deal not about vegetarians, nor recumbent bike riders but about you.

[david143]

OK glueman,

so you refuse to accept my POV or discuss it. That does not surprise me.

Again, read the title of this thread. I am on topic as far as that is concerned.

In my eyes, you do discriminate. You happily label people and then lump them together as if none are capable of individual thought.

As for derailing this thread, I don't think so. I am not talking about recumbents or any other sort of bike. I am talking about how you labeled me and from that point on assumed everything.

If you made a statement that I was a recumbent owner on it's own that is one thing. When you then decide all owners think as x or y, that is where you are wrong. It is the same thing as using the term cyclist to mean idiot who does what they want on the road and gets away with it, which is what many auto drivers do.

I also did point out on the other thread that I was not talking about the benefits or otherwise of recumbents, just the manner you chose to attack them and their owners. I explained this for you there, but perhaps you just chose to ignore that.

How you can't see how I and others view the manner in which you have discriminated against recumbent owners I don't know. Perhaps that is why you do it.

Note: This is only about discrimination. It could of been someone else who chose to decide all people with purple noses all speak the same, act the same way, or look the same, etc even though they don't. However, there is no example of that in the forum.

I tried to do it nicely by talking about labels and how their use is abused so much by most. You chose to respond with silly comebacks about me being childish, foolish, etc, so if you wish to offend people, just keep telling them that's "a typical (label name) reply" when anything someone says to you is not to your liking.

[glueman]

Any chance of the mods sorting this one out? Feel free to ban me if there's something I'm missing.