cotter pins

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15173
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby Si » 23 Mar 2010, 10:37am

could be worse, Halfords were doing bog standard botle cage bolts: £2.50 for four, last time I was in :shock:

User avatar
MikewsMITH2
Posts: 1804
Joined: 19 Sep 2008, 10:25am
Location: POOLE Dorset

Re: cotter pins

Postby MikewsMITH2 » 31 Mar 2010, 9:46am

I've had some trouble with these. They seem to be freely available from the usual old bike sources and ebay. I also got some from my LBDS and SJS have a selection. However prices do vary from cheap to very expensive. The problem I've had is quality. Firstly dropping too far into the crank - You used to haveto file them to fit (which was worse), but mainly being very soft indeed. I know twh yare supposed to be soft to save damaging the axle, but the ones I got from Cycles of Yesteryear were made of the softest steel imaginable and you could strip the threads with a 3" long spanner. The ones from the LBS looked identical andwere I assumefrom the same source, so I pressed these in VERY hard and hammered them as well and did it again after the forst ride and they have been OK since. However I have now bought a quality pair from The Chopper Owners Club. I figured they know about cotter pins for Raleighs, but they were £3.00 EACH! The club officer responsible insists they are of very high quality. They are still in the drawer awaiting gold plating.
S.O.S - Save Our Steel!
1971 Raleigh Mercury
2010 Condor Fratello
1980 Peugeot Tandem
1989 MBK Aventure MTB
195? Viking Severn Valley
1951 Raleigh Lenton Sports
See them here http://tinyurl.com/Mikewsmiths-Bikes

User avatar
Greybeard
Posts: 1383
Joined: 1 Oct 2008, 6:48pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: cotter pins

Postby Greybeard » 31 Mar 2010, 1:11pm

Only last night I spent a little time in the workshop making a pair for 'Christine' (see TCT bikes :wink: ) - simply due to the fact that I have never yet found a good quality new one.
I've altered the design a little so that instead of a protruding 'bolt' that the nut threads on to, I now use a bolt threaded into the 'wedge' section. All in stainless steel and polished, naturally :wink: It now means that for removal, intead of risking damage to the ends of the thread, no matter how careful you are, I can use a brass drift into the bottom of the threaded hole where it can do no damage at all to the thread.
Personally, I think that they look much neater than the usual one, and each one can be custom made to fit the crank/axle so that an even amount protrudes on each side - I love attention to detail :oops: Takes a little longer, but worth the effort :roll:

Image

The crank looks quite tatty in close-up don't it? It's nowhere near as bad in real life.... :shock: Going to have to get that re-chromed now :cry:

Steve

groveller
Posts: 244
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 3:10pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby groveller » 31 Mar 2010, 1:17pm

Now that's what I call quality, well done Greybeard!

GrahamNR17
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Nov 2009, 6:31pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby GrahamNR17 » 31 Mar 2010, 1:25pm

Greybeard wrote:The crank looks quite tatty in close-up don't it? It's nowhere near as bad in real life.... :shock: Going to have to get that re-chromed now :cry:

Steve

Nah, it's patina, ie character :wink:

GrahamNR17
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Nov 2009, 6:31pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby GrahamNR17 » 31 Mar 2010, 1:28pm

MikewsMITH2 wrote:I've had some trouble with these. They seem to be freely available from the usual old bike sources and ebay. I also got some from my LBDS and SJS have a selection. However prices do vary from cheap to very expensive. The problem I've had is quality. Firstly dropping too far into the crank - You used to haveto file them to fit (which was worse), but mainly being very soft indeed. I know twh yare supposed to be soft to save damaging the axle, but the ones I got from Cycles of Yesteryear were made of the softest steel imaginable and you could strip the threads with a 3" long spanner. The ones from the LBS looked identical andwere I assumefrom the same source, so I pressed these in VERY hard and hammered them as well and did it again after the forst ride and they have been OK since. However I have now bought a quality pair from The Chopper Owners Club. I figured they know about cotter pins for Raleighs, but they were £3.00 EACH! The club officer responsible insists they are of very high quality. They are still in the drawer awaiting gold plating.

There are several sizes, one for older English bikes, and one for common European bikes. I think it works out at about 0.5mm difference. And the nut just holds it in place, it's not designed to be strong enough to pull it all the way home :wink:

...and be careful with hammers, you risk bifurcating the BB bearings :shock:

rjb
Posts: 4229
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: cotter pins

Postby rjb » 31 Mar 2010, 1:49pm

...and be careful with hammers, you risk bifurcating the BB bearings


Thats why the advice used to be to support the crank on a wooden block off the ground before hammering the cotter pins so as to protect the bottom bracket bearings :D
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

User avatar
MikewsMITH2
Posts: 1804
Joined: 19 Sep 2008, 10:25am
Location: POOLE Dorset

Re: cotter pins

Postby MikewsMITH2 » 31 Mar 2010, 2:20pm

And the nut just holds it in place, it's not designed to be strong enough to pull it all the way home


Yes I know that and pressed them in with a socket and a huge G cramp and a helper tube to get them really tight. However even a mild steel thread should be able to withstand hand tightening with a standard open ended spanner. When I was a kid I didn't have any means of pressing them in and used to file them carefully and pull them tight with the nut, so I still reckon the new ones are inferior. Getting them out was always a trial - many times I've drilled them out, but never had a problem getting them tight enough before. Now they are in and have been out in the rain, I expect they are already well and truly seized up!
S.O.S - Save Our Steel!
1971 Raleigh Mercury
2010 Condor Fratello
1980 Peugeot Tandem
1989 MBK Aventure MTB
195? Viking Severn Valley
1951 Raleigh Lenton Sports
See them here http://tinyurl.com/Mikewsmiths-Bikes

random37
Posts: 1952
Joined: 19 Sep 2008, 4:41pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby random37 » 31 Mar 2010, 5:27pm

I made a cotter press from an aincient, tiny vice and a socket.

1. Hold the socket over the non-threaded end of the cotterpin
2. Tighten the vice down between the cotterpin and the socket.
3. Tighten some more.
4. Cotterpin comes out.

Piece of cake, and not a murdered bearing in sight. 8)

User avatar
hubgearfreak
Posts: 8210
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 4:14pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby hubgearfreak » 31 Mar 2010, 5:31pm

that's about my method chris. except, i do it with the bench vice, and i find the hanging end of the tool in the picture easier to hold around the none threaded end than a socket would be

Image

GrahamNR17
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Nov 2009, 6:31pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby GrahamNR17 » 31 Mar 2010, 5:44pm

chris667 wrote:I made a cotter press from an aincient, tiny vice and a socket.

1. Hold the socket over the non-threaded end of the cotterpin
2. Tighten the vice down between the cotterpin and the socket.
3. Tighten some more.
4. Cotterpin comes out.

Piece of cake, and not a murdered bearing in sight. 8)

Superb, and so obvious! :shock:

Well, it was well worth getting up today, I've actually learned something new and useful - nice one Chris 8)

User avatar
Greybeard
Posts: 1383
Joined: 1 Oct 2008, 6:48pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: cotter pins

Postby Greybeard » 31 Mar 2010, 6:44pm

hubgearfreak wrote:Image


Mmmm. Yet another metric adjustable, eh? I've been looking for an Imperial one for years :roll:

Steve

GrahamNR17
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Nov 2009, 6:31pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby GrahamNR17 » 31 Mar 2010, 6:53pm

Greybeard wrote:
hubgearfreak wrote:Image


Mmmm. Yet another metric adjustable, eh? I've been looking for an Imperial one for years :roll:

Steve

Image

That was dreadful Image

GrahamNR17
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Nov 2009, 6:31pm

Re: cotter pins

Postby GrahamNR17 » 2 Apr 2010, 10:37am

Well I'll be....... you're absolutely right. I've just been through all my cotter pins, from the 5 quid a dozen cheapies to the fiver a pair, and they're all junk, differing sizes and un-flat flat bits :shock:

Anyone found a reliable source of supply for anything any good?

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 50651
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: cotter pins

Postby Mick F » 2 Apr 2010, 11:18am

GrahamNR17 wrote: ...... Anyone found a reliable source of supply for anything any good?

Leave this with me, I'm sure a certain person could produce some. I'll be seeing him this evening ...........

I have a cotter pin or two as pattern pieces.
(though they are bashed about a bit!)

Correct me if I'm wrong - most usually do! - I've had little to do with Cotter Pins for many years, and if my memory serves me correctly, you usually had to file the flat a little to make the threads poke out far enough. Or then again, some were too thin and the threads came out too far. Either way, there must be a specific/definite/correct size for them, and the cheapo stuff is out of tolerance.

Is there a "Standard Size" or "Standard Design"??

Also:
What material would be best?
SS would be too hard?
Brass would be nice, but not tough enough?

Get back to me soonest, and I'll tap Paul with a beer or two!
Mick F. Cornwall