Hawking,Dawkins V The faithful

[reohn2]

I know its a controversial topic,does anyone think its worth discussing?

[GrahamNR17]

No. People die over debates like that

[reohn2]

No. People die over debates like that

People die anyway,its where they go to thats the problem!!

[GrahamNR17]

No. People die over debates like that

People die anyway,its where they go to thats the problem!!

Depends on which god you believe in, if you believe in such hocus pocus

[reohn2]

No. People die over debates like that

People die anyway,its where they go to thats the problem!!

Depends on which god you believe in, if you believe in such hocus pocus

Personally I don't, but I like a debate as much as the next man

[TwoPlusTen]

God is everything, don't ya know! After all, we are created in His image...*







* yeah, right.

[thirdcrank]

When we've had the occasional religious /irreligious thread before, it's largely been the sneerers versus one or two believers. IMO the majority of non-believers (including me) are not really interested and I fear there is a risk of causing real offence to believers who may not be going to bandy words on a cycling forum. While it's easy to characterise that as being unable to argue logically, some people do find such discussions offensive in themselves.

I'm not trying to gag anything, just suggesting that this is one subject where the type of discussion we are likely to have on here will not add much to the subject. IMO.

[reohn2]

God is everything,

Could that indeed be the case, ie; God being the whole,a sort of intrinsic intelligence that perpetuates(the seen and unseen) the all of everything,and religion a way of trying to interpret it?
If theres one thing that man likes to be (and rightly so IMO) is knowledgeable.Another thing man likes to be is right! unfortunately along with right comes a whole load of baggage.
What starts off a very honourable thing becomes tainted due to mans greed and need for dominence (which can be said for both science and religion in their corrupted interpretations)

[reohn2]

When we've had the occasional religious /irreligious thread before, it's largely been the sneerers versus one or two believers. IMO the majority of non-believers (including me) are not really interested and I fear there is a risk of causing real offence to believers who may not be going to bandy words on a cycling forum. While it's easy to characterise that as being unable to argue logically, some people do find such discussions offensive in themselves.

I'm not trying to gag anything, just suggesting that this is one subject where the type of discussion we are likely to have on here will not add much to the subject. IMO.

I'll admit its a thorny issue and for the none believer easily dismissed and for the believer trying to explain the unexplainable, but with careful and sensitive consideration discussion could be fruitful.

[kwackers]

God is everything,

Could that indeed be the case, ie; God being the whole,a sort of intrinsic intelligence that perpetuates(the seen and unseen) the all of everything,and religion a way of trying to interpret it?
If theres one thing that man likes to be (and rightly so IMO) is knowledgeable.Another thing man likes to be is right! unfortunately along with right comes a whole load of baggage.
What starts off a very honourable thing becomes tainted due to mans greed and need for dominence (which can be said for both science and religion in their corrupted interpretations)

God exists because of the arrogance of man. God makes us special, evolution means we're just monkeys with ideas above our station.

The bit that's always amused me is that you have to apparently spend all your time worshipping this guy under pain of eternal damnation and also persuade other folk to do the same (using any method at your disposal) yet he's supposed to be loving, forgiving etc etc.
Fundamentally I think this is why religious types get offended by such discussions because the truth about God is actually quite unpalatable, if he exists then he's a sadistic megalomaniac.

Mind you he apparently won out in the big fight at the start and cast out the others - and they always say history is written by the victors.

[hartleymartin]

In the so-called objective and rationalist world, it seems that it is expected that we are to be respectful and tolerant towards everyone and anyone... except those who believe in a God.

[AlbionLass]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[hartleymartin]

It's a rather self-evident hypocrisy that people whom believe in God are singled out and openly discriminated against in the name of "tolerance" and "anti-discrimination".

[reohn2]

God exists because of the arrogance of man. God makes us special, evolution means we're just monkeys with ideas above our station.

The bit that's always amused me is that you have to apparently spend all your time worshipping this guy under pain of eternal damnation and also persuade other folk to do the same (using any method at your disposal) yet he's supposed to be loving, forgiving etc etc.
Fundamentally I think this is why religious types get offended by such discussions because the truth about God is actually quite unpalatable, if he exists then he's a sadistic megalomaniac.

Mind you he apparently won out in the big fight at the start and cast out the others - and they always say history is written by the victors.

The worship bit is IMO to make the faithful feel needed and warm but at the same time small and in need ie; in they're place.
God(if It exsists) doesn't need worship, Its total and as such we are part of It, therefore can't be outside of It,and so we are God(parts of the Whole) as much as dog turds,trees,black holes,the Moon,the Universe and the dust particles inbetween,etc,etc.
The factions of misguided corrupt religion,the ones that say our way is the way,are IMO extremely misguided,the ones who say I see God this way and don't mind how others see God i have time for.
Similarly so the scientists/humanists who spend an inordinate amount of time trying their best to decry and discredit God are as equally narrow minded in that they say this way,their way ie;science is the only way (though in truth science,true science is!)and leaves no room for God are as dogmatic as fundimentalist religion.
Truth is open ended,My Mum used to say "you can't tell anything to some one who knows it all" and thats the fault with some both inside and outside of religion,these people are closed, the mind is made up, theres no more to know they know it all therefore are complete within their group(whatever group that may be)truth is, they've locked themselves on the outside yet see themselves on the inside(with everyone outside their group excluded) this is IMO the ultimate delusion.
God by Its very nature is inclusive, exclusivity has no place it simply can't have as theres nowhere else.
The great Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh,speaks of "Interbeing" of being part of the whole.IMO the more we see ourselves as the head of everything the more dulled we become,the more we see ourselves as part of the whole the more we will recognise just that,or put another way a very small cog in huge drivetrain ,yet a drivetrain that can manage very well,if history is correct,without us.
Theres too much "truth" and not enough Love.

Phew! thats a load off!

[Michael R]

Excuse my ignorance but who is Hawkins?