Footnote to a topic

[Vereley]

Last summer I started a topic about free parking in supermarket car parks and the tactics used by a parking management company to intimidate the unknowing transgressor into paying exhorbitant charges if they have overstayed the permitted time. I was very pleased that it triggered and interesting and witty discussion from the members of the forum. The company I fell foul of had signs in the car parks they have been contracted to manage stating how the charges will escalate and they will pursue you through the courts and threaten CCJs and bailiffs who will enter your home and collect valuables, blah blah blah... All of it is hot air and has no basis in law and no one has ever been taken to court by these cowboys. However their tactics do constitute harassment which is unlawful.

I took this up with the UK managing director of the supermarket concerned and explained to him how his "parking management partners" operate in a way that is totally contrary to business principles of his own organisation. In due course a very pleasant district manager came to see me with a very nice bottle of red offered as a goodwill gesture. At no time was it my intention to criticise the supermarket concerned because I know them from the inside and they are a very honourable company and they did have a problem with people abusing their parking facilities.

The footnote: some time later I went to a store and noticed that all the signs in the carpark had been changed. They still stated that you will/could be charged if you overstay the time limit but no more vacuous threats about court action etc. They may argue they were planning to do it anyway, (well they would wouldn't they?) but with 250 stores (thereabouts) I estimate the cost to change all the signs would have been in the order of £250k which would have been borne by the parking management company and I have no sympathy for them.

A Happy and Successful New Year to you all. Keep safe and have fun.

[reohn2]

Well done.I can only hope it bankrupted the company in question .
As another footnote to bad and selfish parking in supermarket carparks,I had my lunch in Morrisons cafe within their supermarket in Ormskirk on Tuesday whilst out for a ride, the window faces the parent&child car park section.
In the 1/2hour or so I was there I counted three cars out of the ten parked in that section that arrived with "children" aged 11 and over on board,not what I'd call incapable children and certainly capable of walking the 100m or so to the store if they'd used the unrestricted section.
This maybe a small reletively insignificant thing but it highlights the problems society has in that people are very selfish,not only don't they wan't to walk anywhere if in anyway avoidable,but they also, in the process teach their "children" to do the same,whilst depriving other parents with toddlers & prams etc, of the convenience that the store,rightly,offer.
It didn't go unnoticed by me that one car was an E class Mercedes,one a 3 series BMW convertable and one a Ford Kuga(?) 4X4,all newish(less than three years old) full of healthy well dressed middleclass folk who couldn't give a monkeys for anyone but self .
Rant over.

[thirdcrank]

It's good to see that supermarket managements listen to customer feedback.

No point in rehashing the whole debate but I think r2 is right to identify selfish parking as the big issue. A motor car is a marvelous thing when it's moving, but a big hindrance when it isn't. Some businesses provide parking to attract custom and a selfish, greedy minority abuse the facility. (No doubt there are customers who have genuine reasons for overstaying, but I fancy they are few.) These various parking management AKA enforcement companies - the good, the bad and the downright ugly - would be out of business if this abuse did not occur or at least they would be restricted to their own parking lots.

It is often rightly said that we all pay for shoplifting by way of higher prices, and this is just the same with 'free' supermarket parking. IMO the majority who abide by the rules should not have to subsidise the selfish minority, whether they are helping themselves inside the shop or on the car park.

[hubgearfreak]

IMO the majority who abide by the rules should not have to subsidise the selfish minority, whether they are helping themselves inside the shop or on the car park.

then those of us that walk or cycle round to the shops are subsidising all motorists that enjoy free parking, whether for 30 minutes or 30 hours

[hubgearfreak]

parents with toddlers & prams etc, of the convenience that the store,rightly,offer.

i'm not even sure about the need for this. my 18 month old can easily walk more than 100 yards. infact he's walked with me round to the chippy restaurant, had a meal and walked back. i should think it's a mile in all.

[reohn2]

parents with toddlers & prams etc, of the convenience that the store,rightly,offer.

i'm not even sure about the need for this. my 18 month old can easily walk more than 100 yards. infact he's walked with me round to the chippy restaurant, had a meal and walked back. i should think it's a mile in all.

I take your point,I was being generous

[thirdcrank]

I presume the main reason for having a parent and toddler section with wider bays is that it's often very difficult to deal properly with children getting into and out of safety seats in the typical car park space, so some extra clearance on either side is invaluable. I speak as a grandparent + two small children. Actually, my d-i-l is sufficiently lythe to be able to do this crouching in the rear footwells of her car. I need more room. The only value of this area being near to the premises is that small people are hard to see among parked cars and do not understand the safety aspects.

[meic]

parents with toddlers & prams etc, of the convenience that the store,rightly,offer.

i'm not even sure about the need for this. my 18 month old can easily walk more than 100 yards. infact he's walked with me round to the chippy restaurant, had a meal and walked back. i should think it's a mile in all.

Surely it is desirable for toddlers to have a short direct route to the shop without crossing the "road" with all those inattentive drivers flying around. I know that parents should be in control of their toddlers but it is a harsh punishment for a momentary slip in what should actually be a safe and pleasant environment.

I could not get my toddler out of the car in a normal car parking space, not enough room to open the doors wide enough. it would be even worse if it was a two door car.
I imagine that a lot of 4x4 owners cant get their bodies out of the oversized cars in a normal space either, which is why they have to join the babies.
Not to forget their valuable paint work getting scratched by people trying to squeeze into the cars next to them and we are not talking of farm vehicles here.

[hubgearfreak]

I know that parents should be in control of their toddlers but it is a harsh punishment for a momentary slip in what should actually be a safe and pleasant environment.

parents are in control of their toddlers, however for me it's drivers MUST be in control of their cars. your wording seems to imply that the blame lays with the potential victim, and for that i'm surprised at you meic

however, your point (and TC's) that it's undesireable for toddlers to be walking anywhere but from the shop door to the car immediately outside the shop door is a valid one, but where does that leave the families without cars (and those that choose to walk), i wonder?

[thirdcrank]

... where does that leave the families without cars (and those that choose to walk), i wonder?

Often, up a creek without a paddle, generally in company with cyclists. Not always, of course. Around here, quite a lot of Morrisons - especially the older ones, are in traditional shopping centres with good pedestrian access although anybody intending doing much shopping still has to get it home. Tesco took over a small local chain called Hillards. These were also in traditional shopping centres and Tesco have developed some where there was room. In Batley, they replaced the former Hillards with a whacking new supermarket, conveniently connected to the traditional local shopping centre by a short bridge. Unfortunately, the great majority of the small shops in these traditional shopping centres have shut, leaving a sad mix of charity shops, and junk shops. So anybody without a car is still at a disadvantage.

[snibgo]

I used to be a "long-stayer", dumping my car for a day while I took the bus to Cambridge. There were no signs prohibiting this, and I never had any problems.

I reckon my local Morrison's car park is the riskiest place I ever cycle. Drivers often failed to see my massive Land Rover ambulance, and I must be totally invisible on a bike. The alternative route is via a shared-use path, with all the usual problems.

Fortunately the supermarket has an alternative entrance also with bike stands.

[meic]

Actually both of our supermarkets do have pedestrian access that doesnt involve crossing the lanes in the car park, so well done to them there.

The only problem being if you are scared of empty underpasses at night.
Or the wonderful junction that they installed when they built Tescos and its entry road.
Despite being a simple T junction the pedestrians have to use three consecutive traffic light controlled crossings all of which need to be activated by pressing a button with an excessive delay before being allowed into the traffic light sequence.
To show total contempt for pedestrian life-forms one of them shows pedestrians a redlight even when cars are not allowed on it.

[thirdcrank]

I'm a bit surpised that nobody has asked how people got on when car ownership was less common. Around here at least it was 'the order.' People had a small notebook in which they noted what groceries they wanted for the week. IIRC, ours was done in such a way that regular groceries need only be ticked. The order book was then left at the grocer's and they would deliver - eg Granville on his bike - everything in a cardboad box. I suppose this system was reinforced by wartime rationing when customers had to register with shops for rationed food. The word 'order' was so ingrained to mean weekly shop that I remember during the sugar shortage in the 1970's our then local supermarket in Garforth had a sign up saying that sugar was restricted to a bag per customer 'with orders only' even though there was no ordering.

Although I've never useed the services, I get the impression that the internet services that the big supermarkets are trying so hard to develop are just a return to the order book, but using the internet for a bit more sophistication. I wonder why people still prefer to go trailing around a supermarket, rather than doing it all online?

[snibgo]

I wonder why people still prefer to go trailing around a supermarket, rather than doing it all online?

I kept asking myself this when I was on two crutches and had to travel by bus.

Answers:

- It got me out of the house.

- I could choose the exact degree of ripeness of fruit.

- I could easily see if they had alternative special offers to my usual choices.

- I could say "hi" to people I knew (cue endlesss discussions on the state of my hip).

- It satisfied my primal urge to hunt and gather.

[eileithyia]

I'm a bit surpised that nobody has asked how people got on when car ownership was less common.

Although I've never useed the services, I get the impression that the internet services that the big supermarkets are trying so hard to develop are just a return to the order book, but using the internet for a bit more sophistication. I wonder why people still prefer to go trailing around a supermarket, rather than doing it all online?

I well remember my childhood days where we would go to the local shops, mum would shop and all the items would be bagged up and paid for, we would continue to my grandmother's for 11's, return home and later the groceries would be delivered (by van).

These days a supermarket is my local grocery store, which is why do I not shop online, it is not worth it and the cost of the delivery service.
Besides I too like to see what I am buying, state of fruit etc.
I also believe the standard of 'alternative' products if your 1st choice is not available, deteriorates as they get to know you.
Someone loosely connected to our junior club is an online buyer/packer at a local supermarket, judging by her size and standard of diet I shudder to imagine what she might consider as an alternative to some of my food choices......