Troll poll

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

What to do with trolls?

1. Give a reasoned and civil reply
6
18%
2. Ignore
19
58%
3. Call them a troll and tell them to get lost
0
No votes
4. Ban them at the first hint of any trolling
8
24%
 
Total votes: 33

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Si
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Troll poll

Postby Si » 3 Feb 2011, 4:04pm

As the subject is en-vogue at the moment and as we like to take notice of how the vast majority of posters would like to forum run, what do you think that we should do with these so-called trolls?

I've come up with four suggestions that I will put int he poll. If you've any other _sensible_ ones I could add them. I have made my views clear in another thread...but I'm happy to admit that I might not be taking the best approach so what do you think? Some notes on the options that I've given are listed below...


1. answer those views and show that he is wrong.....with some subjects this is a waste of time in my point of view because they are all arguments that have been gone over before. And if he is a troll then he will just change tack as soon as he runs out of arguments on one subject. However, it will show up the troll for what he is.

2. just ignore him (or post a single message saying that the discussion has already taken place in other threads and the consensus is that his point of view has been shown to be wrong). Problem is that it's very hard for people to ignore those whose views are so contrary to our own and despite requests not to feed trolls or to report them to mods, people will always keep on feeding them.

3. rather than engaging in reasoned debate, just call him a troll and tell him to *****off. Problem is that it gives him the moral high ground: he has put a reasoned view and the only answer that we can manage is to be abusive, thus it suggests that he is right.

4. just ban him. But then it suggests that we can't engage in discussion with people whose views are contrary to ours, it will no doubt see him back with a new account, and it may even be, in some cases, that he wasn't really a troll but someone who did believe what he was saying and may have been open to conversion - all that we have done is cut him off from the possibility of seeing things our way.


If you go for 3. or 4. on what criteria do you judge someone to be a troll? Problem is that just because someone disagrees with you it does not make them a troll - if it did then a large portion of the forum would be gone.

BTW, we can track multiple voting and doing so we will regard as trolling with an instant removal :wink:

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Troll poll

Postby hubgearfreak » 3 Feb 2011, 4:18pm

i've come to realise that 1 and 2 are best, but i can't vote for two selections

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NUKe
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Re: Troll poll

Postby NUKe » 3 Feb 2011, 4:19pm

1 and then 2
but never 3 or 4 trolls still have aright to free speach and out of the most stupid comments comes some ofthe most brilliant ideas.
NUKe
_____________________________________

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Si
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Si » 3 Feb 2011, 4:21pm

problem is that 2 doesn't really work in dissuading trolls if other people are doing 1.

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meic
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Re: Troll poll

Postby meic » 3 Feb 2011, 4:25pm

Not three or four because it would be too easy to brand innocent people as trolls.
Yma o Hyd

kwackers
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Re: Troll poll

Postby kwackers » 3 Feb 2011, 4:30pm

I think I'm tempted to do 1 before deciding that 2 is the best option.

Sometimes people state something they believe but is so rubbish you assume they're trolling. You write a reasoned reply and then spot that some of it has stuck in subsequent posts.
Sometimes people seem either not to have read your reply, or chosen to ignore stuff they can't answer before continuing to put forth their unchanged case in which case you may as well go with '2'.

IME it frequently comes back down to Mr Galbraith:
"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

Edwards
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Edwards » 3 Feb 2011, 4:41pm

Are Trolls the male version and Trollets the female if so what are the younger not so good version Trolleys?
I think to treat them with compassion understanding then an awful lot of humor. It is very difficult to be nasty to somebody who is nice to you without others seeing or working out what you are up. That is even if you do not ell somebody.

Humor I think is the real key, they feed on upsetting people and the bad emotions that come from that. So i all they get back is sweet understanding and humor. They either have to up their game and be obviously nasty or will eventually get fed up and go away.

For the younger ones try to learn how to be a good Troll and even failing at that. I like to think of the training the puppy approach. Unfortunately they do make a mess on the carpet sometimes (Poor Si has to clean that up at the moment sorry) but I hope they would eventually be trained to control their bowel movements. If not maybe we need a puppy and newspaper smilie thingies or even a nappy.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

Malaconotus
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Malaconotus » 3 Feb 2011, 4:44pm

I voted 4; "just ban them."

Options 1 and 3 play into their hands. No amount of comprehensive fisking of their arguments will ever satisfy or convince. They just want to make other users waste as much time as possible before getting wound-up.

2. is the best option but it requires everyone to do the same, and that never happens. There's always someone who will waste their time patiently and politely explaining, or someone who will take the bait.

The only option which stops them doing what they've joined to do, which is to wate our time and wind us up, is 4.

Graham

Nutsey
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Nutsey » 3 Feb 2011, 4:46pm

Other forums have additional options.

- Move troll threads or derailed threads to a trolling subforum
- have a karma system whereby posters credibility is voted up/down, visible on their profile
- individual posts can be voted up/down, and at a certain negative threshold the post is invisible

So an aid for informing people rather than getting all Nazi-ish.

Personally I think the internet is great because its complete anarchy. Give me 4Chan over Mumsnet anyday :mrgreen:

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Si
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Si » 3 Feb 2011, 4:51pm

Nutsey wrote:Other forums have additional options.

- Move troll threads or derailed threads to a trolling subforum
- have a karma system whereby posters credibility is voted up/down, visible on their profile
- individual posts can be voted up/down, and at a certain negative threshold the post is invisible

So an aid for informing people rather than getting all Nazi-ish.

Personally I think the internet is great because its complete anarchy. Give me 4Chan over Mumsnet anyday :mrgreen:


Problem with having a troll room is that some see it as their aim in life to get every thread moved there, or to rack up points by getting their own posts moved there. Take, for instance, 101 on another popular cycling forum - seemed to get more activity than the main parts of the forum sometimes.

Plus it's more work for forum admin, which means more cost.

anyway, nice to see that with a thread about trolls we've got onto Goodwin's before the end of the first page.

thirdcrank
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Re: Troll poll

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Feb 2011, 5:01pm

I try to do (1) and eventually resort to (2) occasionally going all the way and switching them off. That's actually more use in other circumstances because if somebody does manage to provoke people, they will be repeatedly quoted and at full length so you still get to see chunks of what you had decided to ignore.

In general, I can't see how much can be achieved through moderation, unless somebody is so disruptive that sending them packing is the only way.

It seems to me that in general terms, it's the responsibility of somebody who posts something to make their meaning clear and add clarification if it confuses or misleads somebody else. This sort of thing is generally a misunderstanding between two people both posting in good faith and if one gets upset, it's because of crossed wires. Usually, it seems obvious, to me at least when this happens. The few posters who frequently snarl "Tell me where I said that" could be given a public invitation them to express themselves more clearly. It would have to be done sparingly or we'd have troublemakers constantly feigning confusion. :roll:
==========================================================================
An unusually high number of people posting faster than me.

kwackers - if somebody ignores something I've posted I just assume they have switched me off. And fair enough.

Nutsey
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Nutsey » 3 Feb 2011, 5:11pm

Si wrote:
Nutsey wrote:Other forums have additional options.

- Move troll threads or derailed threads to a trolling subforum
- have a karma system whereby posters credibility is voted up/down, visible on their profile
- individual posts can be voted up/down, and at a certain negative threshold the post is invisible

So an aid for informing people rather than getting all Nazi-ish.

Personally I think the internet is great because its complete anarchy. Give me 4Chan over Mumsnet anyday :mrgreen:



anyway, nice to see that with a thread about trolls we've got onto Goodwin's before the end of the first page.


Yes I did consider this, but decided that that law only fits if actually call someone a nazi, and that nobody on this forum knew about the Law :)

Edwards
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Edwards » 3 Feb 2011, 5:20pm

Nutsey wrote:Personally I think the internet is great because its complete anarchy. Give me 4Chan over Mumsnet anyday


However this forum does not seem to have what you desire there.

I am puzzled about you and mumsnet would you care to share some more.

Nutsey wrote:Yes I did consider this, but decided that that law only fits if actually call someone a nazi, and that nobody on this forum knew about the Law


I think that you will find this forum has more intelligent and knowledgeable people than you seem to be used to. :wink:
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

kwackers
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Re: Troll poll

Postby kwackers » 3 Feb 2011, 5:31pm

Edwards wrote:
Nutsey wrote:Yes I did consider this, but decided that that law only fits if actually call someone a nazi, and that nobody on this forum knew about the Law


I think that you will find this forum has more intelligent and knowledgeable people than you seem to be used to. :wink:

Mumsnet is just another way of clinging to the apron strings. He'll grow out of it.

Malaconotus
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Re: Troll poll

Postby Malaconotus » 3 Feb 2011, 5:31pm

Classic analysis of motivation and advice on dealing with trolls here... http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/

Graham