A car is now deemed essential

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Edwards
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby Edwards » 12 Jul 2012, 8:41am

Fortunately and unfortunately for some people to do some tasks a car is essential in this country.
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byegad
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby byegad » 21 Jul 2012, 12:20pm

700c wrote:Some people need to join reality.

A 60 mile round trip I made the other day:
car: £9 (petrol) + lets guess another £2 for all the rubbish that goes with owning a car. Total £11.
bus: £16.60 return. Means catching 3 buses.
train: £17.20 return.
bike. £0. care to guess how much £0 actually cost?

The car is convenient, and immediately accessible. It is also dry in the wet and warm in the cold.

Let's take the example of my number 2 son, who will be starting grammar school in September.
That school is almost exactly 6 miles door to door, meaning a 12 mile round trip per day;

bike: impossible for an 11 year old to bike to school due to the route he would have to take (10 miles each way) carting all sorts of stuff, on 1 very dangerous road and number of backroads.
train: possible but impractical. Nearest station to the school is 1.5 miles from the school. Nearest station to house is 2 miles away. Would have to include a car journey to the station. Fare: £4.85 + a bit for petrol.
bus: possible but impractical. £1200 per annum on the coach, with a 1 mile walk to the bus stop. Or a 1 mile walk to the bus stop + £25 (megarider) per week fare.
car: £2.50 petrol + a quid for depreciation.

Which makes most sense? Both in terms of safety for the child, cost, and time.


I think your estimates for capital cost and yearly costs are too low. My car costs £800/annum to sit on the front. Capital costs would likely add another £1000/annum to that. Even at 20000 miles per year this adds 11p/mile to the costs and at 20000 miles per year your costs will have to include tyres and maybe an extra service.

I ride between 3000 and 5000 miles a year and last year, a typical year, I drove 5322miles between MOTs. This included 1800 miles for two holidays.

Don't get me wrong a car is damn useful and once bought it is cheaper to use it rather than public transport, this is a major driver in the over use of cars in the UK and only a subsidised public transport system will change it. So don't hold your breath. The great British public is never going to vote for more taxation to pay for this. Except in London where we all get to subsidise London bus and train services. Even if you live 250 miles away and never visit. Per capita subsidy in London well over £1000 and £5 in the North East of England.
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

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horizon
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby horizon » 21 Jul 2012, 3:56pm

The whole of the development of the UK in Georgian and Victorian times, everything from great buildings to the culture, industry, art and commerce of towns large and small, the movement of peoples both rich and poor, the advancement of science, the huge leap forward in society and civilisation, much of which we still rely on and appreciate today - all would have been impossible without the motor car. Let's get real - it cannot be done with horses and steam trains!
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

Mark1978
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A car is now deemed essential

Postby Mark1978 » 21 Jul 2012, 5:42pm

Like :)

byegad
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby byegad » 26 Jul 2012, 8:33am

horizon wrote:The whole of the development of the UK in Georgian and Victorian times, everything from great buildings to the culture, industry, art and commerce of towns large and small, the movement of peoples both rich and poor, the advancement of science, the huge leap forward in society and civilisation, much of which we still rely on and appreciate today - all would have been impossible without the motor car. Let's get real - it cannot be done with horses and steam trains!


Except that car ownership didn't take off until the 1960s, in our street we had a car, the local decorator lived opposite and had a van and the guy at the end of the street had a large Shooting Brake as he owned a shop. That, in a street of 70+ houses was it. Now if I drive past our old house in the evening both sides of the road are packed with parked cars. Development in the UK was train and horse led until the 1900s and then ever so slowly after WW1 the lorry started to appear to move goods, so robbing the railways of business. Cars were a much later development.

Since the 1960s we have assumed everyone had a car, those that don't are second class citizens. To me this is stupidly short sighted, others will disagree.
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

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broadway
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby broadway » 26 Jul 2012, 8:50am

horizon wrote:The whole of the development of the UK in Georgian and Victorian times, everything from great buildings to the culture, industry, art and commerce of towns large and small, the movement of peoples both rich and poor, the advancement of science, the huge leap forward in society and civilisation, much of which we still rely on and appreciate today - all would have been impossible without the motor car. Let's get real - it cannot be done with horses and steam trains!


Rose tinted spectacles are really useful.

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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby Vorpal » 26 Jul 2012, 9:08am

horizon wrote:The whole of the development of the UK in Georgian and Victorian times, everything from great buildings to the culture, industry, art and commerce of towns large and small, the movement of peoples both rich and poor, the advancement of science, the huge leap forward in society and civilisation, much of which we still rely on and appreciate today - all would have been impossible without the motor car. Let's get real - it cannot be done with horses and steam trains!


Um...actually it was done with horses and steam trains (and a disposable labour force), though the development of the steam train, largely took part in the Victorian era. It was Victorian engineering that brought us many of our rail lines and stations.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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alanesq
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby alanesq » 26 Jul 2012, 9:08am

I do not have a car, if a car is essential then what does this mean - what will become of me? ;-)

Well, actually I am on thin ice here as I do have a car, but I put it into storage a few years ago as I realised that the age of the car has now passed, there are just too many of them, it has got way out of hand - so I decided to stop using one but as I had spent so much time and effort building it I couldn't bring myself to sell it. I also sold my 3 motorbikes.
You just have to take a look at the road where you live, a few years ago it would have been a nice place with children playing etc. etc., now you are living in the middle of a vast car park.

There is a nice bit of grassed area outside where I live, but as I am sure you have guessed it is now just covered in peoples cars......
Just look at this picture of a back street where I grew up (I think this picture was taken in the early 50s?) and see how strange and alien this looks to us now - today you literally struggle to drive a car down this street as both sides are just a solid line of parked cars - how did we end up living like this?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.blackham/ctc/street.jpg


The car may be essential if they want to maintain doing what the car allows them to do, but it is not essential.

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Si
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby Si » 26 Jul 2012, 1:28pm

broadway wrote:
horizon wrote:The whole of the development of the UK in Georgian and Victorian times, everything from great buildings to the culture, industry, art and commerce of towns large and small, the movement of peoples both rich and poor, the advancement of science, the huge leap forward in society and civilisation, much of which we still rely on and appreciate today - all would have been impossible without the motor car. Let's get real - it cannot be done with horses and steam trains!


Rose tinted spectacles are really useful.


Um...actually it was done with horses and steam trains (and a disposable labour force), though the development of the steam train, largely took part in the Victorian era. It was Victorian engineering that brought us many of our rail lines and stations.


I'd assumed that he was being a tad ironic there peeps! (Well I certainly hoped so)

Vorpal
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby Vorpal » 26 Jul 2012, 5:18pm

Of course he was. Silly me. :oops:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

theenglishman
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Re: A car is now deemed essential

Postby theenglishman » 27 Jul 2012, 4:51pm

Eammno wrote:
theenglishman wrote:It's all Thatcher's fault

Well it is. Didn't she say that any man travelling on a bus after the age of 25 was a failure?


No, she didn't.



Ok, it was 26, not 25, but she did

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... 702-10.htm