A car is now deemed essential

[gilesjuk]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18770783

"Travel: Bus fares have doubled since the late 1990s which when combined with cuts to public transport, means families with children now deem a car as an essential item"

Whatever next?

What about those who are unable to drive due to disability or health?

[gaz]

Minimum weekly spend on some "socially acceptable" life essentials includes:

Transport: Car: £60.25, public transport: £12.38, Cycling: £1.40

Cycling is not just "socially acceptable" it is life essential!

Shame they put the car in there as well though.

[theenglishman]

It's all Thatcher's fault

Well it is. Didn't she say that any man travelling on a bus after the age of 25 was a failure?

[Cunobelin]

The magic word is "deemed", in other words a number of car users have claimed that it is essential to justify the cost and use.- not really a surprise

[Vantage]

My cycling club have organised on more than one occasion a "car assisted" ride. If you don't have a car or access to one, you can't go on the ride.
Excuse me whilst I go in search of the logic behind this...

[gbnz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18770783

"Travel: Bus fares have doubled since the late 1990s which when combined with cuts to public transport, means families with children now deem a car as an essential item"

Whatever next?

What about those who are unable to drive due to disability or health?

The JRF report is, as stated by a guest on Radio 4 this morning, "nonsense".

And the headline "bus fares have doubled" is itself slightly skewed. It's ironic that it's only been 48 hours since an idiot in the office, stated to me, that bus fares are so expensive, that he has to drive into work as it's half the cost of catching the bus (Rather than using a bike or bus like myself).

Ignoring the fact that his commute is only 1/80th of mine (I.e. a 10 minute walk), his evaluation of costs with regards to car/bus was nonsense. He'd failed to account for the capital cost, depreciation, excise duty, insurance or servicing when accounting for car costs. A quick calculation clarified that his commuting costs by car were 9.71 times higher than by bus, to which his reply was"I couldn't do without the car" (An individual who aside from a package holiday, rarely travels further than walking distance from home (Nominal walking distance, as every journey is by car. )

[thirdcrank]

People do take their cars very seriously. It's being widely suggested that the recent fatal shooting in Clacton-on-Sea had its origins in a parking dispute.

[meic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18770783

"Travel: Bus fares have doubled since the late 1990s which when combined with cuts to public transport, means families with children now deem a car as an essential item"

Whatever next?

What about those who are unable to drive due to disability or health?

The JRF report is, as stated by a guest on Radio 4 this morning, "nonsense".

And the headline "bus fares have doubled" is itself slightly skewed. It's ironic that it's only been 48 hours since an idiot in the office, stated to me, that bus fares are so expensive, that he has to drive into work as it's half the cost of catching the bus (Rather than using a bike or bus like myself).

Ignoring the fact that his commute is only 1/80th of mine (I.e. a 10 minute walk), his evaluation of costs with regards to car/bus was nonsense. He'd failed to account for the capital cost, depreciation, excise duty, insurance or servicing when accounting for car costs. A quick calculation clarified that his commuting costs by car were 9.71 times higher than by bus, to which his reply was"I couldn't do without the car" (An individual who aside from a package holiday, rarely travels further than walking distance from home (Nominal walking distance, as every journey is by car. )

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. All those things are already paid, whether you use it or not.
Very few of my repairs are mileage related and servicing has to be done on a time basis.
So it is down to diesel making up well over 90% of any journey's expense.

As someone who doesnt really want to use a car, I accept that most of my expense is for the privilege of having one sat outside to use and then to actually use it is very cheap, probably 15p/mile.
Obviously the other costs go UP per mile the less you use it!!

So tomorrow I will drive to Tenby as it will cost me less than taking the train (also I dont want to be at the mercy of the conductor deciding my daughters trailer bike isnt allowed on the return trip).

PS One of my bikes is running at around 50p/mile at the moment!!!

[700c]

Some people need to join reality.

A 60 mile round trip I made the other day:
car: £9 (petrol) + lets guess another £2 for all the rubbish that goes with owning a car. Total £11.
bus: £16.60 return. Means catching 3 buses.
train: £17.20 return.
bike. £0. care to guess how much £0 actually cost?

The car is convenient, and immediately accessible. It is also dry in the wet and warm in the cold.

Let's take the example of my number 2 son, who will be starting grammar school in September.
That school is almost exactly 6 miles door to door, meaning a 12 mile round trip per day;

bike: impossible for an 11 year old to bike to school due to the route he would have to take (10 miles each way) carting all sorts of stuff, on 1 very dangerous road and number of backroads.
train: possible but impractical. Nearest station to the school is 1.5 miles from the school. Nearest station to house is 2 miles away. Would have to include a car journey to the station. Fare: £4.85 + a bit for petrol.
bus: possible but impractical. £1200 per annum on the coach, with a 1 mile walk to the bus stop. Or a 1 mile walk to the bus stop + £25 (megarider) per week fare.
car: £2.50 petrol + a quid for depreciation.

Which makes most sense? Both in terms of safety for the child, cost, and time.

[meic]

There is the problem.
Private cars make that sort of lifestyle choice open to people and then they need a car to maintain it!
Without the private car the child would just have to go to the local school, which would be by school bus or walking.

Which makes most sense? Both in terms of safety for the child, cost, and time.

Well if that is the question then you know the answer. However if you look further ahead and wider out all the fuel and fresh air is possibly worth more than securing individual childrens' educational advantage.

[kwackers]

I think the lesson here isn't that people need cars, more so that when they 'think' they need something they'll do whatever is required to justify it.
Doesn't matter what it is, car, dishwasher, latest bit of tech. We're all experts when it comes to finding reasons why we need something.

I'm pretty sure that if flying cars ever became a reality we'd soon have people popping up to say why they 'need' one.

For the majority it isn't anything to do with 'need' and more simply support for their lifestyle choice.

[gbnz]

[. He'd failed to account for the capital cost, depreciation, excise duty, insurance or servicing when accounting for car costs. )

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. All those things are already paid, whether you use it or not.
Very few of my repairs are mileage related and servicing has to be done on a time basis.
So it is down to diesel making up well over 90% of any journey's expense.

quote]

Hmm...I suppose I didn't clarify that his rationale for owning a car, was to drive to work. While it's convenient to ignore in excess of 50% of the running costs of using a car, in calculating its running costs, it'd hardly be a valid calculation.

[gbnz]

For the majority it isn't anything to do with 'need' and more simply support for their lifestyle choice.

Which is the primary objection to the report produced by the JRF. The report is based on focus groups subjective assessment of their needs, to evaulate basic living costs.

Thus I live in poverty, as defined by the JRF. I don't buy a new pair of glasses each year, I don't own a 32" digital tv, I don't have a fixed phone line,I don't have a car, I routinely shop at LIDL's, I don't buy a bottle of wine every week .

I'm living in absolute poverty

I only wish the Revenue and Customs would accept the JRF's research as fact. Though I've managed to avoid the dreaded 40% for the sixth year in a row, the £$%&))) still take far too much of my cash

[thirdcrank]

A hundred and fifty years ago, reality was the dark satanic mills and pushing small boys up chimneys. There will come a time when people will look back in horror and disgust at our reality, just as we look back at the world described by Charles Dickens. (Thousands killed and injured every year, air polluted etc.)

I'll declare an interest as a reluctant driver and car owner - with a grown-up son who was once ferried to a grammar school.

[The Mechanic]

I think the lesson here isn't that people need cars, more so that when they 'think' they need something they'll do whatever is required to justify it.
Doesn't matter what it is, car, dishwasher, latest bit of tech. We're all experts when it comes to finding reasons why we need something.

I'm pretty sure that if flying cars ever became a reality we'd soon have people popping up to say why they 'need' one.

For the majority it isn't anything to do with 'need' and more simply support for their lifestyle choice.

And what is wrong with that? If you wish people to respect your lifestyle choices then you should not deride theirs. I ride my bike to work sometimes but other times I go in my car. It takes me approx 20 mins to get to work by car. To get there bus I would have to get a bus into town, circa 40 mins. Then get another but to work, also circa 40 mins (I have done both). That is 1 hour 20 mins to get to work. I am afraid my time is worth more than that both to me and to my company.

By bike it takes me 45 mins but then I have to get cleaned up and changed. I can live with that but not when its raining.