Low-life bulbs

[kwackers]

I can't help but think if incandescent bulbs were the new kid on the block and LED's and CFL's the bulbs on the way out we'd be seeing all the same old stuff...
Dull, yellowish, like living with candles etc etc.

I think they're a classic example of confirmation bias at work.

[MarkF]

I can't help but think if incandescent bulbs were the new kid on the block and LED's and CFL's the bulbs on the way out we'd be seeing all the same old stuff...
Dull, yellowish, like living with candles etc etc.

I think they're a classic example of confirmation bias at work.

I don't think that is true, after all low energy bulbs have been around 20 years and and the light still annoys people. My incandescents are not dull, I use the appropriate wattage for the room size. Got a 200 watt baby in a cellar room! I will watch LED developments with interest, but low energy fluorescents? No thanks.

[kwackers]

I don't think that is true, after all low energy bulbs have been around 20 years and and the light still annoys people. My incandescents are not dull, I use an the appropriate wattage for the room size. Got a 200 watt baby in a cellar room!

I know - I've had them for over 15 years and guess what...

None of my friends noticed for all the years I had them until the recent 'fuss' then suddenly they had issues. One person even complained they gave them headache!
To relent I simply used my uplighters and they were happy - what they didn't know is the uplighters also contained CFL's!

An awful lot of folk used fluorescent's all around their houses and never thought anything of it. It's surprising how few people even now realise that most strip lighting is the same technology as CFL's.

People simply believe what they want to believe...

[danfoto]

it is still possible to buy incandescent light bulbs, but they have to be "heavy duty".

Not so. Many of those available are indeed rough duty ones, but there's still plenty of the good old common-or-garden 100 watt pearl BC to be had online. Try a search on Ebay for "100 watt pearl bulb" ...

[MarkF]

None of my friends noticed for all the years I had them until the recent 'fuss' then suddenly they had issues. One person even complained they gave them headache!
To relent I simply used my uplighters and they were happy - what they didn't know is the uplighters also contained CFL's!

Ah, but then the light is not direct but diffused from the wall and ceiling surfaces, where colour can also make a large impact.

I didn't like them (low energy compact fluor's) then, early 90's and I don't like them now, they have inherent problems, some of which, rapid switching & cold, drastically reduce their advertised benefits. Hopefully LED advancements will see them consigned to the bargain baskets like low voltage spots.

Tell you where I really don't like them, when they are retro fitted to fittings specifically designed for incandescents.

[kwackers]

Ah, but then the light is not direct but diffused from the wall and ceiling surfaces, where colour can also make a large impact.

That's partly my point. The colour of the bulb is almost irrelevant, decoration has a much bigger effect.
But for someone who had come around to my house for years and never have a problem to suddenly start having headaches almost within hours of realising I had CFL's (and after reading about them in the paper) is just laughable.

Tell you where I really don't like them, when they are retro fitted to fittings specifically designed for incandescents.

In my book that's about the best argument against them.

The whole CFL thing is irrelevant; the few LED's I'm currently using easily best other forms of lighting imo. The main issue is trying to second guess the brightness when each manufacturer seems to have their own method of measuring it. (Although the cheap ones are generally dimmer).
The last couple of "40-60w" equivalents I bought were almost too bright.

[gentlegreen]

There is an insanely huge amount of complete ballcocks on LED sellers' sites.
I had a bit of fun a while back with a seller of bonkers over-hyped LED spots.

How can it be legal to lie about the electrical wattage of a product on Amazon - a perfectly decent triple 2 watt 60 degree spot at £10 - though I've seen them for half that ... I got several layers of lies from the Chinese supplier who I'd given a negative review.
I told him that for me to give a good review they would have to stop telling lies.

The basic problem with LEDs is cramming enough power into old-style fittings like MR16s without them burning out - anything above room temperature measurably shortens their life - or making a diffused light like an old-school room heater, er incandescent lamp. There's a 7 watt Philips MR16 that actually has a fan in it !
So if you see an MR16 or GU10 spot claiming to be anything over 6 watts, it won't be. And even with the best LEDs, 6 watts doesn't replace 55.

I wanted a 60 watt lamp for an incubator experiment a while back and was so embarrassed to be seen buying such a thing ...

I used to use 21 watt incandescents on my bike, but the front one went to 10 watts of CFL, and now 6 watts of LED that can also light up the path...

[kwackers]

So if you see an MR16 or GU10 spot claiming to be anything over 6 watts, it won't be. And even with the best LEDs, 6 watts doesn't replace 55.

I just tried a test, in my loo I've a 60w incandescent (still there because it's not blown yet and it's hardly ever used).
I tried a 6w LED (from simplyled) and I'd say it was a good substitute just as bright and slightly cooler in colour (could have been a bit brighter but the colour difference might have been throwing me). I then tried a 8w LED and it was far too bright - as in verging on painful.

One of the things both the LED's did which the incandescent doesn't is focus the light predominantly downwards, don't know what that's worth but I suspect it's worth something.

[kwackers]

I've also just tried swapping the GU10 out of my milling machine for a spare 50w spotlight.
I don't think there's any real difference in brightness although the LED looks to be slightly more focussed, from a machine POV the LED though knocks spots off the original. It's been in there 2 years and still works (I used to go through those lights like you wouldn't believe - vibration and coils of hot wire don't go together!), the colour is better (easier to see detail with) and it doesn't strobe at the sort of speeds I normally deal with.
Only thing is I don't know what the wattage of it is, doesn't seem to be marked although it has 3 single leds in there so I'm guessing 3 to 6w.

[rjb]

it doesn't strobe at the sort of speeds I normally deal with.

This is why industrial machine tools used dc lighting. Saved your fingers when you weren't concentrating.

I recently put a led in a desk lamp that used those 20 watt halogen g63 type bulbs. The flicker was very offputting as the led only works on the forward cycle so was strobing on off at 50 cycles per second. I put a small bridge rectifier in the supply to change the led supply to dc to cure the problem.

[kwackers]

it doesn't strobe at the sort of speeds I normally deal with.

This is why industrial machine tools used dc lighting. Saved your fingers when you weren't concentrating.

Actually thinking back I think it strobed because the bulb was knackered and the vibration rattled it...

[661-Pete]

I know it's been five years, but .... time for a bump .

Is anyone still buying these wretched CFLs?

I had yet another of the blasted things go phut! on me the other day, I did a quick count, I still have five of them using up valuable space in the store-cupboard where I keep spare bulbs. Not to mention those sitting in light fixtures at this moment, which haven't popped yet - although they soon will!

Now - doing a bit of background reading - I discover that many types of CFL (especially the helical type) should not be used base-up - which excludes them from most ceiling light fixtures. This is because the ballast (the fat bit at the base) will overheat and the bulb will fail sooner. Wish I'd know that detail earlier (was it brought up on this thread?).

Anyway, off to the shops by bike and bought a couple of LEDs to replace them - the one that failed and one on an adjacent fixture that's on the way out. The LEDs worked first time, fine (mind you I had a premature 'death' of an LED a few months ago, so they're not perfect).

Environmental concerns? CFLs contain mercury (albeit only a small amount) and use a lot of so-called rare-earth metals (lanthanides) in their construction. A few years ago there was a supply crisis in rare-earths seeing as the main source was China. Luckily, now that LEDs are taking over from CFLs, it seems the crisis is over: LEDs also use rare-earths, but only a fraction of the amount needed for a CFL. Of course, the Trump trade wars could change that!

So it's LEDs only for me, from now on. The costs are coming down. And I think the time will come when CFLs are banned - just as 100W incandescents and halogens were banned.

I should point out that I still have about a dozen 100W incandescents stashed away in the same store-cupboard. "For emergencies..."

[kwackers]

I don't have any CFL's any more.
Gave them all away, turns out the local charity shop takes them (and incandescents too!)

When I moved into my current house nearly 4 years ago the previous owner must have been someone who disliked saving money. Never seen so many lights in an house. The kitchen alone pulled over 1kw if you turned them all on, 500w in the hall, 600w in the living room, 500w bathroom etc etc.
Needless to say they've all been replaced by LED's and we're down to sane levels of power.

Mind you I allowed my missus to pick a new light fitting for the 'study', it holds 20 x golf ball led lights! Fortunately I also fitted a dimmer at the same time so it only pulls around 20w in normal use.
Oh, and I replaced all the florescent's in the garage with LED panels. They're still power hungry although about half what the florescent's use but I arranged the switching into banks of 3 for different parts of the garage which is also a big improvement.

As for LED longevity, the only LED's I have go have been all bought from the same shop - which also guarantees them for life... Think I've had about 3 fail out of something like 100 bulbs.
Oh and a Philips which was DOA.

[rjb]

In a few years time we could all be replacing those CFL and LEDs with old fashioned incandescent's.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35284112

[iandriver]

n struggle with a torch held in your teeth to install and hook up the new one. You plug in the bulb, screw on the cover (which only just fits), and switch on.

Hate to suggest you need more lights, but these are brilliant for DIY, repairing punctures/ viewing route sheets at night etc.
https://www.alpkit.com/lighting