Lane hogging?

[661-Pete]

Not a cycling topic, but:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... mentpage=1

So, it seems, you can now be fined for blocking Beemer Boy as he zooms along in the fast lane on his way to the takeaway... I always knew BB was superior to the likes of us, and here's the proof...

Seriously, how exactly, and legally, do you define lane-hogging?

[kwackers]

Not a cycling topic, but:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... mentpage=1

So, it seems, you can now be fined for blocking Beemer Boy as he zooms along in the fast lane on his way to the takeaway... I always knew BB was superior to the likes of us, and here's the proof...

Seriously, how exactly, and legally, do you define lane-hogging?

Easy. If you're sat in a lane when there's a perfectly good space to your left that you've no good reason for not taking.

[meic]

The arguments against it are based on some words in the highway code that you should drive in the left lane and use the other two lanes to overtake.

You will hear angry callers to phone ins saying "These middle lane hoggers are breaking the highway code and should be banned from the road". This is considered suitable to them for somebody elses minor perceived violation of the highway code. However they will be ignoring other bits of the highway code like the two second rule.

They will also admit to overtaking on the inside, speeding, tailgaiting and worse but it is all the other person's fault.

They are just doing it on Radio2 as I type, one man is saying it doesnt matter if middle laners are doing 70mph on the motorway, he still has to overtake as you are allowed to drive at 10% over 70mph. Even that man feels fit to judge others understanding of the laws of the road.

[kwackers]

They are just doing it on Radio2 as I type, one man is saying it doesnt matter if middle laners are doing 70mph on the motorway, he still has to overtake as you are allowed to drive at 10% over 70mph. Even that man feels fit to judge others understanding of the laws of the road.

I think the argument that if you're doing 70mph in the middle lane you can't be holding anyone up is a false one.

At 70mph ideally you need around 200 feet of road and it's not uncommon to see the middle lane filled well beyond this capacity and thus bunching up to less than this whilst there's little traffic in the left lane.

Turning it into a discussion about overtaking is imo nonsense. It's a fairly simple rule and not difficult to understand, at capacity motorways need every lane even though they're all doing less than 70mph. Reluctance to move left reduces capacity.

Not that it matters because nobody's going to enforce it anyway.

[thirdcrank]

I'd say that although there are people who get in the middle lane on a motorway and stay there come what may, they are fewer than is often suggested. I'm a conscientious returner to the next inside lane after overtaking, but as mentioned by meic above, I'm also a conscientious two second gap merchant. As I've probably posted before, the two second gap rule implies a gap of 4-5 five seconds for a change of lane or the vehicle changing lane will be in somebody else's 2 second gap (or more often their 0.5 second gap.). I can be stuck in a lane for some distance when I would rather change lane (on either side) when the gaps are inadequate to permit a safe move over.

The real problem here is one of motorway congestion and more precisely, drivers continuing to drive at higher speeds rather than driving more slowly to ensure that safe following distances are maintained.

I'll predict that one of the results of this policy announcement will be to encourage tailgaters trying to do a bit of DIY enforcement.

[Ray]

Lane-hogging is, by definition, a bad thing, and can cause irritation and frustration to others. On the other hand, tailgating is itself highly dangerous and intimidating, and the cause of many crashes. The way this has been reported suggests that the two are on a par, and will attract similar penalties.
Seems to me this is as much about populist politicking as road safety.

Ray

[Mark1978]

Quite, while driving in the middle lane with nothing to the left of you in a bad idea. Neither is going past a lorry then ducking in for 5 seconds until you get to the next lorry then pulling out again and repeating all down the road.

We can't afford three lanes in the North East anyway, our motorway only has two

[cycleruk]

The thing that really riles me is the lorry that's doing 1 MPH faster than the lorry it's overtaking.
All the cars are now bunched into the outside lane while the lorry takes 15 minutes to overtake.

As a note: I prefer to use the inner lane as if the car/motorbike breaks down then I don't have to cross two lanes to get to the kerb.

[drossall]

They will also admit to overtaking on the inside, speeding, tailgaiting and worse but it is all the other person's fault.

I don't like lane hogging, and I don't do any of those things (if I can help it).

It's probably not the most important thing to address, but have you not seen a queue of traffic caused because someone is sailing up the middle lane, well below the speed limit, with nothing for half a mile in the inside lane, and therefore there's only one lane free for overtakers to use?

I remember many years ago when the cost of motorways reached £1m a mile. As a tax payer, I find it a little frustrating to think that they'll be spending much more than that adding a lane to this motorway soon, when you could add a whole lane simply by getting the hog I've just seen to move to the inside one!

At that rate you'd think the fines would be:

distance travelled in wrong lane * cost per mile of building a new lane

But, as I said, there are probably more important things to address.

[Vorpal]

Actually, I think that allowing to police to deal with more offences as fixed penalties is generally a good thing. In fact, I think that the police ought to be permitted to deal with the majority of traffic offences as fixed penalty notices.

I can't imagine that lane hogging, as such, will be used very much, but if tailgating results in FPNs, I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, without an increase in resources to issue those FPNs, it's all just hot air.

[thirdcrank]

IMO the fixed penalty system will never be really effective while it remains an only alternative to a prosecution to the criminal standard of proof. Fixed penalties work in most cases because most people prefer to pay up to prevent any hassle. If somebody is prepared to play the system and can afford the legal representation, they can often throw a spanner in the works. This may be all very Magna Carta but but having the £££ to squabble over procedural issues shouldn't make any difference. IMO for a whole range of traffic offences, fixed penalties should be the only enforcement system and anybody who feels they have received a notice for something they did not do should be able to appeal on that basis only. ie a system based on discovering the reality of what happened, rather than "guilt." It may sound revolutionary but afaik it's pretty much what happens in much of Europe.

[reohn2]

FWIW,we use the motorway,M6,M56,between three and five days per week twice a day usually(six to ten journeys of 20 miles or more) half of which is usually in rushhour.
Middle lane hogging is a serious problem causing no end of frustration,blocking up the middle and outer lanes as motorists try to get around the middle lane obstacle some of which are travelling well below the limit.
It doesn't seem to matter to these idiots that the nearside lane is totally empty or for hundreds of metres in front of them with traffic backing up behind.
Yes sometimes they're travelling at 70mph but that doesn't mean they should consider themselves as the obstacle police.
It really is infuriating at times
Like wise tailgating for no reason is something which I see regularly especially in rush hour traffic and very often well in excess 70mph.
Goons
I'd make my wage pretty quick in fines if I were a police officer

[drossall]

One of my most frightening experiences was being tail-gated by a lorry on the motorway around Birmingham, when driving a minibus full of Scouts. I was already in the inside lane, so there was nowhere to go, and he was trying to get me to go faster, which really just meant close up on the vehicle in front in traffic.

I discussed it with my instructor, who had been a Police instructor, the next time I renewed my minibus permit. We agreed that I did the only thing possible by slowing down a little. This may aggravate the offender further, but gives you extra space ahead so that you can brake gently, and so give the driver close behind more time to react.

Of course, it also encourages and enables that driver to overtake as soon as possible, which gets rid of the problem (or passes it on to someone else).

[thirdcrank]

Motorways are designed and built to remove as many hazards as possible and this is reinforced by prohibiting various types of road user. Failure to observe a safe distance between vehicles is one of the few remaining causes of serious collisions but these usually experienced, often "professional" drivers routinely display their poor judgment / impatience/ aggression by making this driving error.

On the subject of tailgating by lorries - possibly a reason for some car drivers to prefer the second lane - I've heard the argument rather too often from people in the haulage industry who should know better, that as the max speed of lorries is regulated, anybody regularly having lorries right up their exhaust must be driving too slowly. Not only does this fail to recognise that the speed of a carefully driven vehicle is partly dictated by the speed of whatever it's following, it implies that somebody who drives "too slowly" should be liable to the risk of summary execution.

[Mick F]

I drive the Community Bus a couple of times a month and it's "speed regulated". Max speed is 63mph - I think.

It powers along and accelerates briskly - even with the full complement of 15 passengers. It even pulls well up hills full too. Trouble is, when it reaches the max speed, it suddenly cuts off accelerating any more.

Very annoying on dual carriageways actually. You can be powering along nicely and overtaking a slower vehicle, then all of a sudden, you stop accelerating and you crawl past. This is exacerbated by rolling hills as my Minibus can go faster than the limiter going downhill. HGVs slow down going up, then speed up going down and then settle back to their set speed on the flat.

I never used to sympathise with lorry drivers before, but now I do.