Everthing South Of Exeter

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
BeeKeeper
Posts: 1265
Joined: 29 Apr 2011, 6:45am
Location: South Devon

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby BeeKeeper » 11 Feb 2014, 11:42am

Effluent Surrey now. Being flooded by water must be bad enough but when it has "floaters" in it the mind boggles...

However, we also have the same problem down here: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/end-sew ... story.html

PS: The video is "X" rated, do not watch if you have recently eaten anything.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 15366
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby mjr » 11 Feb 2014, 1:48pm

661-Pete wrote:That may be a factor, but I'd be cautious about making a political point out of these dreadful events, however frustrated people in your area may feel.

Why? It seems like a political decision was made in 2010's bonfire of the quangos largely to retreat from parts of Norfolk and Somerset and we've seen the effects of that since December, but now Surrey, Berks and Oxfordshire are flooding, suddenly it's a national incident with Prime Ministerial press conferences and so on. What are the possible drawbacks of highlighting the political point?

Of course, even if the coastal and river banks were defended again, the cycle network is regarded as the lowest priority, despite the greater challenges they face than larger vehicles. Cycle track drainage often sucks, especially near road junctions, with water and debris from roads washing into the track entrances and there usually being no edge drains. Even cycle network diversion signs are put up after the most minor car routes (if at all) when routes are flooded or flood barriers or key bridges on them are closed due to water stresses. Fortunately bikes are generally let through as soon as routes reopen to pedestrians, which is often before cars are permitted.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 9802
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Feb 2014, 2:41pm

mjr wrote:
661-Pete wrote:That may be a factor, but I'd be cautious about making a political point out of these dreadful events, however frustrated people in your area may feel.

Why? It seems like a political decision was made in 2010's bonfire of the quangos largely to retreat from parts of Norfolk and Somerset and we've seen the effects of that since December, but now Surrey, Berks and Oxfordshire are flooding, suddenly it's a national incident with Prime Ministerial press conferences and so on. What are the possible drawbacks of highlighting the political point?

I didn't say I wouldn't, just that I'd be cautious. I'm just guessing that the people who've been most vociferous in complaining about Government or EA inaction, may not be the people who've suffered the worst. You may disagree about this.

Just to set the record straight, I ain't no fan of Cammers, least of all his sidekick Billy Bunter. Quite the reverse!

[edit]I see Millie's just had the finger too, so at least the anti-politician stuff isn't one-sided...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 15366
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby mjr » 11 Feb 2014, 5:46pm

661-Pete wrote:I didn't say I wouldn't, just that I'd be cautious. I'm just guessing that the people who've been most vociferous in complaining about Government or EA inaction, may not be the people who've suffered the worst. You may disagree about this.

I'm guessing that the people who've suffered the worst have other things to deal with right now... :-(

But does being fortunate enough to live high and dry (our access road floods at one end, but it's been minor so far) mean I shouldn't care what happens to my friends and neighbours, or my family, or former neighbours? As others have pointed out in other threads, much of this like Dawlish was forecast, but George Osborne wouldn't pay for flood defences while the sun was shining.

Two other observations: first, the BBC was calling the line through Dawlish "the main line to Cornwall" - main line? It was the only line!

Second, now that some home counties have flooded, suddenly "money is no object". When recent-CON-loss Norfolk flooded, it was left to a local MP to say that "no extra money was being made available". When often-LD-Con-marginal Somerset flooded, it was "No extra money will be given". It's difficult not to feel there's a party political element to this.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
patricktaylor
Posts: 2299
Joined: 11 Jun 2008, 11:20am
Location: Winter Hill
Contact:

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby patricktaylor » 11 Feb 2014, 11:40pm

mjr wrote:... now that some home counties have flooded, suddenly "money is no object". When recent-CON-loss Norfolk flooded, it was left to a local MP to say that "no extra money was being made available". When often-LD-Con-marginal Somerset flooded, it was "No extra money will be given" ...

Recent CON losses and marginals are where you'd think money would be spent if it was all party politics.

Cameron's "whatever money is needed, we will spend it" leaves open the question of what is needed. Lord Smith has talked about the economic benefit of flood defences and if there isn't any, no money. There must surely be more criteria than purely economic benefit. After all, it's not a new project like HS2 - the homes affected are things that already exist.

Geriatrix
Posts: 1852
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby Geriatrix » 12 Feb 2014, 7:39am

patricktaylor wrote:Cameron's "whatever money is needed, we will spend it" leaves open the question of what is needed. Lord Smith has talked about the economic benefit of flood defences and if there isn't any, no money. There must surely be more criteria than purely economic benefit. After all, it's not a new project like HS2 - the homes affected are things that already exist.

R4 pointed out this morning that the context of Cameron's statement was for this flooding incident only. It doesn't imply a commitment to any longer term strategy on flood defense.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman

User avatar
Graham
Moderator
Posts: 6207
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 8:48pm

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby Graham » 12 Feb 2014, 8:49am

patricktaylor wrote:Cameron's "whatever money is needed, we will spend it" leaves open the question of what is needed.

Challenging times indeed.
First, Mr Pickles making a huge political blunder by rubbishing the Environment Agency.

Now Cameroon talking a load of obviously grandstanding rubbish.

R4 Today program now reporting that " . . .whatever money is needed . . . " is being retrospectively redefined as something less stupid and even something credible and sensible.
i.e. Underspent budget amounts, in the various organisations involved will be retained and spent by those organisations rather than being pulled back into the Treasury.

Cameroon's " . . .whatever money is needed . . . " was, at best, gross misrepresentation. Credibility slips further.

The UK public finances are still in deep trouble with massive public debt. Open ended spending commitments are simply absurd.

Government money is taxpayer money ( and unfortunately Government debt is indirectly yours as well ).

Psamathe
Posts: 11383
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby Psamathe » 12 Feb 2014, 12:29pm

Graham wrote:
patricktaylor wrote:Cameron's "whatever money is needed, we will spend it" leaves open the question of what is needed.

Challenging times indeed.
First, Mr Pickles making a huge political blunder by rubbishing the Environment Agency.

Now Cameroon talking a load of obviously grandstanding rubbish.

R4 Today program now reporting that " . . .whatever money is needed . . . " is being retrospectively redefined as something less stupid and even something credible and sensible.
i.e. Underspent budget amounts, in the various organisations involved will be retained and spent by those organisations rather than being pulled back into the Treasury.

Cameroon's " . . .whatever money is needed . . . " was, at best, gross misrepresentation. Credibility slips further.

The UK public finances are still in deep trouble with massive public debt. Open ended spending commitments are simply absurd.

Government money is taxpayer money ( and unfortunately Government debt is indirectly yours as well ).


And this morning on R4 (I think) they were saying that some Councils are still not spending everything they could because they don't trust Cameron and his "spend whatever is needed". As the Councils will have to spend the money then reclaim it, seems they are not confident then can actually get it back. And that is a massive credibility blow to Cameron (and the Boys from Bullingdon).

Ian

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 15366
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2014, 2:41pm

patricktaylor wrote:
mjr wrote:... now that some home counties have flooded, suddenly "money is no object". When recent-CON-loss Norfolk flooded, it was left to a local MP to say that "no extra money was being made available". When often-LD-Con-marginal Somerset flooded, it was "No extra money will be given" ...

Recent CON losses and marginals are where you'd think money would be spent if it was all party politics.

Why? We've only had the county elections last May, the next ones are still 3 years away and so this phase is to make the new "rainbow" administration in Norfolk County Hall look bad. One way is to starve them of money. Another is to postpone critical things like deciding on the unpopular planned incinerator and deciding on major house-building schemes and hope that not enough people notice what's going on.

Then next year, their MP candidates can point at the awful job the other parties are doing at county hall... :-/
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Geriatrix
Posts: 1852
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby Geriatrix » 13 Feb 2014, 10:04am

mrjemm wrote:The chonkin' chef's nasty old Dad has been quiet lately. Has his denialist's support group died a death after even Camerwrong suggested such weather's down to CC?

Spoke to soon. he's emerged from Hibernation: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/13/climate-change-policy-britain-at-risk-ed-davey-environment-secretary

Lord Lawson wrote:On Wednesday, Lord Lawson a former Conservative chancellor who regularly casts doubt on climate science, also criticised suggestions of a link between the floods and global warming as absurd.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman

mrjemm
Posts: 2933
Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 4:33pm

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby mrjemm » 13 Feb 2014, 10:13am

Geriatrix wrote:
mrjemm wrote:The chonkin' chef's nasty old Dad has been quiet lately. Has his denialist's support group died a death after even Camerwrong suggested such weather's down to CC?

Spoke to soon. he's emerged from Hibernation: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/13/climate-change-policy-britain-at-risk-ed-davey-environment-secretary

Lord Lawson wrote:On Wednesday, Lord Lawson a former Conservative chancellor who regularly casts doubt on climate science, also criticised suggestions of a link between the floods and global warming as absurd.


Urgh. :x

Geriatrix
Posts: 1852
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 1:33pm
Location: Caterham

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby Geriatrix » 13 Feb 2014, 10:25am

What's annoying is the disproportionate amount of airtime the BBC gives to bigots like Lawson who elect themselves as climate experts and claim the same intellectual authority on the subject as bona fide scientists.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman

mrjemm
Posts: 2933
Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 4:33pm

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby mrjemm » 13 Feb 2014, 11:22am

Him and Chris Patten probably best mates and enjoy reminiscing about Mags' days.

Just seen this site, and seems they're both Bilderbergers-

http://fallingmasonry.info/masonic-lords.html

Conspiracist, moi?

Psamathe
Posts: 11383
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby Psamathe » 13 Feb 2014, 11:49am

Geriatrix wrote:What's annoying is the disproportionate amount of airtime the BBC gives to bigots like Lawson who elect themselves as climate experts and claim the same intellectual authority on the subject as bona fide scientists.


The BBC's policy of "balance" is fair enough in theory but in practice it means giving 50% or the airtime to each of two opposing views. Hence you end-up seeing Lawson making a fool of himself the whole time as, there are so few people now willing to make complete fools of themselves to fill 50% of the timeslot.

BBC need to review their policy (or its implementation). Though suspect a lot will be changing at the BBC over the forthcoming years.

Ian

User avatar
honesty
Posts: 2555
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 3:33pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: Everthing South Of Exeter

Postby honesty » 13 Feb 2014, 12:24pm

False balance is what this is known as, and the Beeb are particularly bad at it.