The Ukraine

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pete75
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The Ukraine

Postby pete75 » 4 Mar 2014, 7:52pm

President Obama says that "If Russia wants to be a G8 country, it needs to behave like a G8 country".
Presumably he means the Russians should have lied about the Ukraine having weapons of mass destruction and launched a full scale all guns blazing invasion just like Britain and America did with Iraq.....
Last edited by pete75 on 5 Mar 2014, 7:34am, edited 1 time in total.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 4 Mar 2014, 8:45pm

Hi,
Mertyle (german PM)
Told Putin (russian door stop) To live in the real world :lol:
Some one said today Putin has shot himself in the foot , my thoughts yesterday.

Obama should man up and have spent just 9 seconds on phone not 90 minutes, telling him to stop acting like a ..............................
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

andrewk
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby andrewk » 4 Mar 2014, 9:55pm

Don't expect anything from Obama, most ineffective president since Carter.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 4 Mar 2014, 11:42pm

Hi,
andrewk wrote:Don't expect anything from Obama, most ineffective president since Carter.

Yes, he started with big ideas , Isreal in particular :?

But he will be forgotten soon enough and if remembered will only be for being non white.

Do you ever notice that American Presidents talk in short sentances, and then atempting a long one forget what they were going to say........................
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

reohn2
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby reohn2 » 5 Mar 2014, 10:56pm

Gangster takes over business empire,wishes to increase business stake.
Inserts puppet gangster in other business,workers reject puppet.
Gangster brings out the hardware.
Other businesses cry foul.
Gangster says ''so whatya gonna do about it?''
Other businesses cry foul and threaten sanctions.
Gangster says ''you want me to turn off the gas tap and stop selling you my minerals,etc, and take my money out of your country''
end of(sadly)
It's what you get sleeping with a snake,when it sheds it's skin it doesn't transform itself into a butterfly but remains a snake.
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I cycle therefore I am.

Psamathe
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Psamathe » 6 Mar 2014, 11:08am

What I find strange about conflict is how help from others is so dependent on their own self interest.

So when problems started in Syria the West was being very critical or Russia because Russia wanted to engage in diplomacy, get talks going etc. (which also coincided with their self interest). And the West was very critical of the Russian "diplomacy" stance. But now the West has o do something and their self-interest cuts-in and rather than actually do anything they are moving to "engage in talks" and "pursue diplomatic means". They are doing exactly what they were so critical of Russia having done previously - and it is all down to self-interest.

The bodies of the world set-up to prevent, avoid and resolve such conflicts peacefully are locked-up themselves - because those with self-interest have too much power to block any action. That is not to say I would propose military action (quite the contrary). But we could do a lot more financially, block all Russian visas, look at all the dodgy Russian money in the UK .. and very soon those keeping Putin in power would start "exerting influence".

Ian

axel_knutt
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby axel_knutt » 6 Mar 2014, 2:17pm

Psamathe wrote:What I find strange about conflict is how help from others is so dependent on their own self interest.

Conspicuous I would say, rather than strange. The political system we have at a global level is anarchy rather than democracy. The way individual countries behave in the absence of a global government is much the same as the way individual people behave in the absence of a national government.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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Mick F
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Mick F » 6 Mar 2014, 9:18pm

Listening to R4 this morning ............
They were interviewing the ex-president of Georgia.

He basically suggested that Putin is similar to Hitler.
Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia and the world stood back.

Chamberlain went to see Hitler and they signed an agreement that Herr Hit would go no further, so Mr Chamb came back with "Peace in Our Time" etc. Next thing you know, Herr Hit has gone into Poland. The rest is history. At the time, Herr Hit wasn't seen as a despot or a Bad Person, just a dictator to be kept an eye on.

Because no-one did anything at the time and nipped it in the bud, Herr Hit went further and further and FURTHER, and all hell broke loose.

Maybe - Mr ex-president was saying - we should nip this in the bud too.
Mick F. Cornwall

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horizon
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby horizon » 6 Mar 2014, 9:34pm

Mick F: they're waiting for you now to blaze your way into Balaclava Bay and rescue the Ukrainian destroyers. I hope you've got your ship moth-balled somehere handy on the Tamar! :D :shock: :D
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

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Mick F
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Mick F » 6 Mar 2014, 9:59pm

What a good idea! :D
I'm looking for recruits even now. Going out press-ganging shortly.

Keep an eye on the bottom of your beer tankard, it maybe that I've dropped a King's shilling into it.
Mick F. Cornwall

JohnW
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby JohnW » 6 Mar 2014, 10:27pm

andrewk wrote:Don't expect anything from Obama, most ineffective president since Carter.


you mean he hasn't started a war?.........personally (as if it mattered) I don't hold that against him.

cyclingsitham
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby cyclingsitham » 7 Mar 2014, 12:11pm

I am very sad to see that most of the people here are supporting the USA in this conflict.

As a matter of fact, Putin had permission from the Ukrainian PM, the new one, to lay down near Krim.
Also, many people in the USA believe that US government payed the original rebels to create chaos.
Third, Europe should back off, and let everything go.

What would the UK do, if you thought that there were rebellions in Ireland and there was a coup d'etat, would Britain stay still and would not monitor the case??

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661-Pete
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby 661-Pete » 7 Mar 2014, 12:34pm

cyclingsitham wrote:What would the UK do, if you thought that there were rebellions in Ireland and there was a coup d'etat, would Britain stay still and would not monitor the case??
I'm not sure whether you're speaking from a historical context (with more than a hint of irony) or from the present-day situation, but no matter.

It's quite conceivable that Ukraine will be partitioned. There's been plenty of historical precedent over the past century or so, when a population has an ethnic, cultural or religious divide. Like Ireland, a century ago. India and Palestine in the 1940s. Within most people's memory, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. And most recently of all, Sudan.

Doesn't seem to work out very well, does it?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

JohnW
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby JohnW » 7 Mar 2014, 1:05pm

cyclingsitham wrote:I am very sad to see that most of the people here are supporting the USA in this conflict.

As a matter of fact, Putin had permission from the Ukrainian PM, the new one, to lay down near Krim.
Also, many people in the USA believe that US government payed the original rebels to create chaos.
Third, Europe should back off, and let everything go.

What would the UK do, if you thought that there were rebellions in Ireland and there was a coup d'etat, would Britain stay still and would not monitor the case??


Exactly.

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Mick F
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Mick F » 7 Mar 2014, 2:36pm

cyclingsitham wrote:I am very sad to see that most of the people here are supporting the USA in this conflict.
Don't count me in with that.
I'm actually on the side of common sense and peace.

Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in the 1950's by Nikita Khrushchev despite many/most of the population not wanting it. They now plan on a referendum there.

Seems ok to me, let the people decide ................. just like they're doing in Scotland.
Mick F. Cornwall