TV licensing...

[Mick F]

well the license fee is going to £150 odd soon.

That's £12.50 a month at least.

[mjr]

Unless they check on our internet connection and what is being streamed, how would they know anything?

You write that as if a succession of snooping laws haven't set up the machinery to check on most internet connections. If they estimate it's worth the costs to Auntie, I'm sure the BBC will be added to the list of allowed snoopers.

[pwa]

Yes, me and Mrs Mick F discussed that very point this morning.
Is there any money in it when they can't actually see or check that you're obeying the rules?
All they can do is pester you and hope you acquiesce.

In the old days we had tellies. Easy to see them when they look in the windows.
These days, we have devices .............. we have two iPhones, one iPad, two MackBooks, and an iMac, let alone people that come here and use our broadband. Daughter and her husband stayed with us for a week recently. Did they watch live TV on their phones?

Unless they check on our internet connection and what is being streamed, how would they know anything?

Is your internet connection up to live TV streaming? Pretty sure ours isn't.

[mjr]

Is your internet connection up to live TV streaming? Pretty sure ours isn't.

Compression gets faster. My poor old 2Mbps connection now does HD, although I generally prefer to simply capture the many Gbps of broadcast media washing over the house that I don't have to pay for.

[Mick F]

Is your internet connection up to live TV streaming? Pretty sure ours isn't.

It was.
Obviously not checked it for quite some time. When we were allowed to view iPlayer without a TVL, it worked well.

We have a Netflix account and that works fine.
Often watch YouTube stuff, and that's fine too.
We recently watched Hanibal Brooks ................ absolutely excellent film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co5UmlcUQmw

[Mick F]

...... no (third) letter from TVL HQ as yet. No1 and No2 were in January.

Still no letter.
Considering they think that we need to renew in March, it's a bit late for sending another reminder.

Just a thought ...........
No doubt the letters are software generated untouched by human hand. It could be that their records are showing that we replied online for the third or fourth(?) time that we don't require a TVL and now we haven't replied this year, their computer is going to sleep, and it will wake up again in Jan 2019 for another reminder.

Stay tuned.

[mercalia]

so the Swiss have justed voted to retain the COMPULSORY TV LICENSE @ 451 swiss francs

Thats nearly £350

so whats so good about swiss tv anyone? what tv programmes have they made that deserve that amount of money?

https://www.thelocal.ch/20180304/swiss-voters-poised-to-keep-media-license-fee

[PH]

so the Swiss have justed voted to retain the COMPULSORY TV LICENSE @ 451 swiss francs

Thats nearly £350

and everyone has to pay, whether they have a TV or not.

[Mick F]

Everyone?
Every individual person?
Surely not.

Every household?
No matter how many or few people in it?
Surely not.

[mjr]

Everyone?
Every individual person?
Surely not.

Every household?
No matter how many or few people in it?
Surely not.

Yes. This is sometimes called a "new enclosure", referring to the enclosures of common land - here what's getting enclosed is a common, open marketplace where people were free to choose.

Typically, first, the proprietors persuade the state to become responsible for collecting the licence fees so the beneficiaries don't have to fund collection, then they make it a criminal rather than civil offence not to pay, then they make everyone pay regardless of use, sometimes arguing that the whole population benefits and sometimes arguing that a significant proportion of the population are flouting licensing restrictions/requirements.

I first spoke about this 15-20 years ago, in the context of software licensing, when Microsoft were trying to get our government to pay a per computer fee, whether or not the computer ran any Microsoft software. This would have posed a significant barrier to entry for all other private software companies as well as the social enterprises I worked for, so I had some strange fellow travellers that time.

The biggest risks of new enclosures are probably medications and GMOs but anything controlled by patents or copyrights is vulnerable. TV is often a step or two towards enclosure but private competition actually prevents them finishing the job in most markets, as the recipients of the tax usually don't want to share with the private competitors and thereby establish them.

However, the Swiss TV audience is fairly small and split between languages and SRG-SSR's nine TV channels and four co-owned TV channels pretty much dominate, so there's not much to stop the situation getting frozen in its current state. Other channels tend to be local stations getting a small part of the licence fee or minimal rebranding of ones from neighbouring countries, such as Germany's Pro7 or France's M6.

(edited to clarify the "new enclosure" name - probably all you smart people understood it anyway)

[Mick F]

Why don't they take the TVL fee out of income tax in Switzerland?
That way, you pay as you earn.

We don't do that in UK because it would appear that we would have state-run television. By making the TVL voluntary, it preserves the independence of the BBC.

BTW, here we are in March, and the TVL people haven't sent another letter. The two I received were in January.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
How can the BBC be independent if Gov sets the licence fee (please correct me).

[Stevek76]

We don't do that in UK because it would appear that we would have state-run television. By making the TVL voluntary, it preserves the independence of the BBC.

Does it really though? It's a bit of a thin illusion really. It's still parliament that sets the amount every how many years it is via royal charter. It would still be as nominally independent if they just had that charter set an amount and took it from the general taxation pot.

BTW, here we are in March, and the TVL people haven't sent another letter. The two I received were in January.

Thought you said your last one was in early Feb? Mine normally turn up in the first week of the month.

[Mick F]

No, two in Jan. None since.
They're not specifically dated other than saying the month. Both say January 2018 and that our No Licence Needed confirmation is due in March 2018. Again, no specific date.

[Mick F]

Update.
Here we are in April, and nothing from the TVL people.
Not a sausage.