TV licensing...

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Oldjohnw
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jul 2020, 4:18am

Radio may be free. But as far as I know the people who work for don't do so for nothing.
John

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simonineaston
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby simonineaston » 16 Jul 2020, 9:05am

Radio may be free
Perhaps a better way of putting it is that BBC radio does not require a licence to listen to.
The License fee isn't, and wasn't, value for money
Whether or not its value for money is an entirely subjective judgement - I regard it as great vfm - and I don't even watch much telly!! Since tv content went online, the whole concept of a licence, as opposed to funding, has got all out of wack. Back when the only way to receive content was via a telly, the licence made perfect sense. If you bought a telly, you needed a licence to receive signals on it. It was a reasonable assumption that those who bought a telly did so with the intent to use it. As radio sets were already well established in UK households, the new licence did not apply to them, hence "radio being free".
The internet may have made a nonsense of the way the licence has translated into the modern world, however some sort of insulation from shareholders and politicians is highly desirable for reasons I'm sure I won't have to spell out... Folk who regard the BBC as irrelevant in the modern world (for whatever personal reason or preference) will jolly-well miss it, if we move into an era where there simply isn't any broadcaster (using whatever medium) that's at all independant of controllers with their own agenda. Broadcasting media owned and controlled by the likes of the Maxwells, the Murdochs, the Blacks, the Barclays, the Bezos & the Dorseys of this world, would be a very different place. If we think it's difficult now to figure out the truth in news, imagine what it might be like with no independant news source at all. Recall the dystopia described in 1984 and then remember the author worked for the BBC. He will have known that the Beeb may not be perfect but it's a great deal better than the alternative.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

thirdcrank
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Jul 2020, 10:23am

simonineaston wrote:... As radio sets were already well established in UK households, the new licence did not apply to them, hence "radio being free". ....


On a point of information, radio licences were introduced in 1923 and when TV licences were introduced in 1946, they were covered both telly and radio. Separate radio licences were only abolished in 1971.

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simonineaston
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby simonineaston » 16 Jul 2020, 10:31am

thirdcrank wrote:
simonineaston wrote:... As radio sets were already well established in UK households, the new licence did not apply to them, hence "radio being free". ....


On a point of information, radio licences were introduced in 1923 and when TV licences were introduced in 1946, they were covered both telly and radio. Separate radio licences were only abolished in 1971.
OK, OK - just 'cos I post on here, doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about - sometimes I can be bothered to check my facts and sometimes I can't - I'm not a flippin' BBC news journalist, am I?? You get what you pay for... nobody feeds me a stream of money from licence fees, do they??!! I'm off to go watch some cricket. Humph.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

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Mick F
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Mick F » 16 Jul 2020, 7:15pm

I was cycling today.
Listened to R4 before breakfast, then I was out for the day.
Home now, listened to R4 news at 6pm, and then it was off.

Now ............. silence as far as loudspeakers are concerned.
Mick F. Cornwall

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Jul 2020, 7:43pm

simonineaston wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
simonineaston wrote:... As radio sets were already well established in UK households, the new licence did not apply to them, hence "radio being free". ....


On a point of information, radio licences were introduced in 1923 and when TV licences were introduced in 1946, they were covered both telly and radio. Separate radio licences were only abolished in 1971.
OK, OK - just 'cos I post on here, doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about - sometimes I can be bothered to check my facts and sometimes I can't - I'm not a flippin' BBC news journalist, am I?? You get what you pay for... nobody feeds me a stream of money from licence fees, do they??!! I'm off to go watch some cricket. Humph.

I wouldn’t do that - it’ll only depress you
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Jul 2020, 7:46pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Mick F wrote:... Having the device, isn't the issue. You can have one, but not turn it on and let it gather dust if you want. ...

Unless something has changed, a licence is needed to have it installed. Probably a minor difference, these days, but in the days before daytime telly, plenty of people were prosecuted for having one installed the technical expression for its being plugged in.



I believe it was “being capable of receiving a broadcast signal” or something to that effect.

So cable box, sat dish, aerial...
Not DVD/BluRay/VHS/BetaMax/CED player/recorder (which might on their own require a license) or games console/computer.

The line got a bit blurry when streaming was possible.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Jul 2020, 7:48pm

The License fee isn't, and wasn't, value for money
Whether or not its value for money is an entirely subjective judgement[/quote]

It is indeed. And you’ll note my complete double standard when I say I perceive it as pitiful value, and simultaneously support a scheme which would cost me more.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Pastychomper
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Pastychomper » 20 Jul 2020, 9:25am

simonineaston wrote:...sometimes I can be bothered to check my facts and sometimes I can't
sounds like a
flippin' BBC news journalist
to me :lol:
(although I entirely accept that you are not one)
Everyone's ghast should get a good flabbering now and then.
--Ole Boot

mercalia
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby mercalia » 20 Jul 2020, 9:47am

seems like the scammers want a bit of the action also

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=137601&p=1509851#p1509851

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yakdiver
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby yakdiver » 23 Jul 2020, 1:00pm

yakdiver wrote:
rjb wrote:You don't need a license to watch the beeb in prison. :lol:

I haven't got a telly so no licence, but the other day I got a letter from them saying that I have used iplayer twice this year and put me under investigation, which I have not, we will have to see what come of it.

Update
Never heard anymore from them
Alias Numbnuts

mercalia
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby mercalia » 23 Jul 2020, 1:07pm

yakdiver wrote:
yakdiver wrote:
rjb wrote:You don't need a license to watch the beeb in prison. :lol:

I haven't got a telly so no licence, but the other day I got a letter from them saying that I have used iplayer twice this year and put me under investigation, which I have not, we will have to see what come of it.

Update
Never heard anymore from them


yet

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simonineaston
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby simonineaston » 23 Jul 2020, 1:49pm

I haven't got a telly so no licence, but the other day I got a letter from them saying that I have used iplayer twice this year and put me under investigation, which I have not, we will have to see what come of it.
TV licensing have a history of using agressive & intimidating wording in their standard letters, often implying action that is designed to make the recipient cough up. However, it's unusual for them to claim to do carry out something that specific. Re-read the letter (if it wasn't confined to the bin!) and I bet the actual words do not state anything so detailed - they will be very generalised.
Although the law does allow agencies to ask for records of data use, from internet service providers and mobile phone network companies, it requires an order from a court offical, for example a magistrate, as far as I know. That presumes an investigation is underway and that they are able to provide a reasonable cause for belief an offence has taken place - highly unlikely in a case where there simply is no other evidence... again, if no viewing of licenced content takes place, then no licence is required - and so no offence has taken place & no defence is required. Tho' TV Licensing's bark is loud and persistant, prosecutions really are their last resort and require collection of specific and detailed evidence.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

mercalia
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby mercalia » 23 Jul 2020, 4:09pm

simonineaston wrote:
I haven't got a telly so no licence, but the other day I got a letter from them saying that I have used iplayer twice this year and put me under investigation, which I have not, we will have to see what come of it.
TV licensing have a history of using agressive & intimidating wording in their standard letters, often implying action that is designed to make the recipient cough up. However, it's unusual for them to claim to do carry out something that specific. Re-read the letter (if it wasn't confined to the bin!) and I bet the actual words do not state anything so detailed - they will be very generalised.
Although the law does allow agencies to ask for records of data use, from internet service providers and mobile phone network companies, it requires an order from a court offical, for example a magistrate, as far as I know. That presumes an investigation is underway and that they are able to provide a reasonable cause for belief an offence has taken place - highly unlikely in a case where there simply is no other evidence... again, if no viewing of licenced content takes place, then no licence is required - and so no offence has taken place & no defence is required. Tho' TV Licensing's bark is loud and persistant, prosecutions really are their last resort and require collection of specific and detailed evidence.


I think it might fail. Some time ago there was a solictor who acted for various film companies who claimed their material had been downloaded using Torrent. I think the standard argument against these claims was knowing an ip address is not the same as knowing who commited the crime, so the solicitor tended to use threats of court action, ( the films tended to be porn ones, so the fear of being labeled as a porn user was used to intimidate targets).
Last edited by mercalia on 23 Jul 2020, 4:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

thirdcrank
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby thirdcrank » 23 Jul 2020, 4:36pm

IME which is admittedly not recent, the need for evidence never troubled the tv licence enforcers. Their only real problem has been over the last few years when public opinion changed against their old Big Brother advertising campaigns, which caused them to change to a gentler style eg emphasising the ease of paying by direct debit.

I fancy the next problem is going to involve abolishing free licences for the over 75s. I remember Sniveller Parris writing when they were introduced it would be difficult to end the privilege once it had been granted. The idea of restricting it to those on means-tested benefits might have been sound but it's too late now. There's talk about the government decriminalising this, but who is going to start taking on persistent non-payers who are 75+?

This comes at a time when the difficulties of producing new material in lockdown have increased reliance on repeats, and so on.