TV licensing...

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 9 Feb 2020, 10:57am

Hi,
In the wording of the BBC licence fee.
Does simply removing your aerial and the cable render you with an incapable receiver?

Unfortunately I don't think it does on a practical basis, like a lot of people here if you live very near a transmitter aerial like I do you don't even need a cable let alone an aerial!

because I thought I could just stop paying the license and disconnect the aerial, and simply watch everything on catch up via the Internet, insuring I don't touch BBC stuff.

I have no doubt the BBC have already thought about that, they will have lawyers to Word documents even if you stick your finger in the back of the TV to receive a signal.
Don't laugh mine works like that.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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Mick F
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Mick F » 9 Feb 2020, 11:06am

[XAP]Bob wrote:TV can only receive live TV if it has an aerial or dish.
The law is about "when it is broadcast" not live.

"as it is broadcast" can come via on-line or mobile signal as will as by dish or aerial.

I don't think they use the "live" word because of the inherent delays in processing. On-line radio for instance with the time pips, can be a up to a minute out from "live". No doubt on-line TV time delays are worse due to more processing required.

As for lack of aerial or connection leads, you can use a capacitor pushed into the aerial socket to receive TV signals. You need a good strong signal of course.

The law is about watching or recording TV as it is broadcast, as well as BBC iplayer, on any device.
No law about other catch-up TV though.
Mick F. Cornwall

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 9 Feb 2020, 11:23am

Hi,
Yes as said you can view stuff online which does not get you out of just removing your aerial.

I'm a bit surprised someone is not producing TVs that can receive catch up but not live broadcast.
I would've of thought Today this could all be done with software/hardware inside your TV.

Maybe somebody's already doing it?

On one website I think or The Guardian newspaper web site, it's just a way of avoiding paying the license fee by blocking many things on your devices and resetting them.
But it still says that the inspectors can arrive at your house with a warrant if you don't do a Declaration (Micks letters asking to make a declaration, three letters whatever describing)
Even if you do do a declaration you have to renew it every two years.
I'm not saying that you should make a declaration at all.
One day this will end for sure.
Then your old TV licence certificates will be for sale on eBay ha ha.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

rmurphy195
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby rmurphy195 » 9 Feb 2020, 6:44pm

In all the controversy and proposals, a couple of things stick in my mind

1) Would it be an issue without the canning of the over 75 concession?

2) if it were voluntary would enough people pay?

3) If the BBC became subscription only, how would that help over 75's (and others) who can't afford it?

4) If the BBC became subscription, what would happen to all those BBC radio stations that we can listen to without our ears being blasted by advertising?

5) If the BBC became dependent on advertising, would TV programs become as unwatchable as many of the commercial ones? (4-6 minute advert breaks, another minute or two reminding you of what happened before the advert break, thus a 1 hour program is only 40 minutes long - if you're lucky)

Decriminalise the non-payment by all means, but the TV licence is a damn sight cheaper than any of the alternatives, and you get more for it, on several levels.
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 9 Feb 2020, 7:37pm

Hi,
But why do you have to pay BBC licence fee to watch other channels?
To me this is the criminal part of it isn't it :!:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

philvantwo
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby philvantwo » 9 Feb 2020, 8:28pm

I wonder if mick f and his mrs watch Netflix on individual laptops or huddle around just the one? :?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Feb 2020, 8:43pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
In the wording of the BBC licence fee.
Does simply removing your aerial and the cable render you with an incapable receiver?

Unfortunately I don't think it does on a practical basis, like a lot of people here if you live very near a transmitter aerial like I do you don't even need a cable let alone an aerial!

because I thought I could just stop paying the license and disconnect the aerial, and simply watch everything on catch up via the Internet, insuring I don't touch BBC stuff.

I have no doubt the BBC have already thought about that, they will have lawyers to Word documents even if you stick your finger in the back of the TV to receive a signal.
Don't laugh mine works like that.



Yes it does - the TVL site explicitly states that in the case of a tv which is only connected to a games console or DVD player (yes the text is that old).

If you live stream something that is also broadcast then that is also disallowed, but hooking your smart tv up to the Internet is allowed (assuming no broadcast reception capability - assuming you don’t live stream (so Netflix/Prime/AppleTV etc are all absolutely fine, as are the other channel catch up services. It’s iPlayer (catch up or streaming) and other broadcast channels live streams that you need a license for.


If that sounds twisted and stupid it’s because it is. The relevant rules have massively failed to keep up with reality. I didn’t pay the TVL for many years, then they said “if you use iPlayer *at all*” and for the sake of a couple of shows we succumbed. Still can’t live stream because they are apparently incapable of putting the subtitles out (I’ll guarantee they’re on the broadcast, and they are on catch up, it’s just laziness and discrimination.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Mick F
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Mick F » 10 Feb 2020, 9:17am

philvantwo wrote:I wonder if mick f and his mrs watch Netflix on individual laptops or huddle around just the one? :?
She watches on her laptop, and I rarely bother with Netflix at all.

When we do watch something together, it's on the big iMac.

We watched Random Harvest yesterday evening. We have it recorded on a hard drive with dozens of other movies.
Random Harvest is a lovely romantic love story film with a complicated plot about a WW1 British officer found in a shell hole in France with complete memory loss. Ronald Coleman and Greer Garson star in the 1942 film.
It's a bit of a weepy for sentimental folk like us! :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_Harvest_(film)
Read the plot section.
Mick F. Cornwall

merseymouth
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby merseymouth » 10 Feb 2020, 9:21am

Hi MickF, So the question is are you "Avoiding" or "Evading" taxes? :lol: :lol: :lol: MM

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Mick F
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Mick F » 10 Feb 2020, 9:25am

What tax?
Are you suggesting that the TVL is a tax?

It isn't and should never be. That would make the BBC a state broadcaster beholden to the political whims of whatever government is in power.

It's bad enough that it's a criminal offence not to pay it if you watch, and it's bad enough that the government set the rate of the TVL.
Mick F. Cornwall

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Feb 2020, 4:33pm

Mick F wrote:What tax?
Are you suggesting that the TVL is a tax?

It isn't and should never be. That would make the BBC a state broadcaster beholden to the political whims of whatever government is in power.

It's bad enough that it's a criminal offence not to pay it if you watch, and it's bad enough that the government set the rate of the TVL.



It is effectively a non progressive, hypothecated, tax.
It is neither collected by, nor spent by, the government - but it's governmentally determined and mandated.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

merseymouth
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby merseymouth » 10 Feb 2020, 5:24pm

Hi MickF, So if it is a Hypopothecated Tax, phew my head thinking of that word, could you give me a hypothetical answer? :roll: .
Generally thought of a a form of taxation, so go with the flow, after all people still talk about "Road Tax" even though it was abolished in 1937!
Come on MickF make us all happy by giving the BBC their pound of flesh, or at least only view stuff on DVD's you have bought, miser! :wink: MM

rmurphy195
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby rmurphy195 » 10 Feb 2020, 7:15pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
But why do you have to pay BBC licence fee to watch other channels?
To me this is the criminal part of it isn't it :!:


You aren't though are you - the commercial channel's income does not go to the BBC, but it still comes from you - indirectly through advertising fees on products, and/or the retailers selling them. You pay this if you buy products made by companies that have an advwertising budget, even if you don't use the commercial channels! The only difference as far as I can see is that with the licence fees youb aren't having a great chunk of your spend creamed-off by advertising companies.

To get a scale of how much you are paying, how often did you hear the once-popular claim that own-brand products are cheaper (partly) because they are not advertised?

The BBC licence fee is to provide the BBC channels. Think of it a bit like NI contributions - you make them even if you never need medical attention!
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

mercalia
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby mercalia » 10 Feb 2020, 8:59pm

rmurphy195 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
But why do you have to pay BBC licence fee to watch other channels?
To me this is the criminal part of it isn't it :!:


You aren't though are you - the commercial channel's income does not go to the BBC, but it still comes from you - indirectly through advertising fees on products, and/or the retailers selling them. You pay this if you buy products made by companies that have an advwertising budget, even if you don't use the commercial channels! The only difference as far as I can see is that with the licence fees youb aren't having a great chunk of your spend creamed-off by advertising companies.

To get a scale of how much you are paying, how often did you hear the once-popular claim that own-brand products are cheaper (partly) because they are not advertised?

The BBC licence fee is to provide the BBC channels. Think of it a bit like NI contributions - you make them even if you never need medical attention!



Not strictly true. The license fee provides a licence to receive any live broadcasts. It just so happens the BBC gets the money to pay for its programmes. its all really a con act as if someone had its fingers in the till and helped its self - its been legalised. The BBC is authorised by the govt to collect this fee

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Mick F
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Re: TV licensing...

Postby Mick F » 10 Feb 2020, 9:19pm

merseymouth wrote:Come on MickF make us all happy by giving the BBC their pound of flesh, or at least only view stuff on DVD's you have bought, miser! :wink: MM
You can give them their pound of flesh, along with millions of other people.

We won't.
We used to, but no longer.
They can stuff it where the sun don't shine. :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall