Obesity 'could be a disability' - EU courts rule

[MarkF]

You can explain and educate all you want, but when an (artificially tasty) kebab, chips and can of pop costs £1.99, people will continue to get fatter. This sort of "food" is too cheap, 12" pizzas for .99p, eat one and your body will still tell you it's hungry, so what do you do? Eat another or get the the kebab of course!

I have recently started working in a hospital, I have never seen so many fat people in my life, a huge % are obese (the far greater % are women), these employees work, surrounded by leaflets and posters dedicated to giving healthy eating and drinking advice. What do they eat at break times? Fast food from the plethora of local shops, and I'd guess the average meal "spend" at £2. These employees are educated professionals, so, how are those who are not constantly reminded of the need for healthy eating going to be "educated"?

If I walk out at 3.30 ish, whole families are crammed into the fast food outlets, that is where the majority, locally, obtain their food, it fills the kids up and is cheaper and more convenient, than the parent making anything. Within a 200m stretch of road, I'd guess there are at least 15 such outlets, that is outlets than only sell fried chicken, burgers, chips, kebabs, pizzas and pop.

[661-Pete]

If I see a really obese person, I glance down at my own tummy, then I think to myself, what's with the smugness, Pete? Yes it's getting worrying for me, I think the turning point now is, I find it uncomfortable (though not impossible) to tie my own shoelaces. For all that the doctor reassures me all the time: "Better to be fat and fit, than to be slim and unfit, so keep up the cycling!" But it's not enough now, I've more or less given up on any hill beyond a gentle undulation that all you good souls on here wouldn't even notice.....

I eventually persuaded my GP to recommend to me a (free) weight management course run by the surgery, but I'm waiting for a vacancy to come up on that. Otherwise, there's Weightwatchers, but they're fearsomely expensive for what they provide....

Of course I don't really need any of these things. What I need is willpower. But willpower sometimes needs a sort of 'helping hand'...

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Given the prejudice against obesity, and that
some medical conditions make it difficult or impossible to control, I don't think
that the ruling is unreasonable. I am a little concerned, though about long term implications.

What percentage...........................

I have no idea what percentage, and frankly, I doubt that there is sufficient information available to
figure it out. Anecdotally, I know one person on medication that slows her metabolism. I know another
person who has been overweight most of her adult life, and hospitalised herself trying to lose it. She was
diagnosed with an eating disorder, and is on a diet recommended as part of her recovery plan, but she
remains overweight. I know a couple of people who struggle with mental and emotional disorders who tend to
eat for comfort, but all the GP will do for them is prescribe anti-depressants. They are overweight and
unfit, but not obese enough to have an obviously reduced quality of life as a result.

Even skinny or so called fit people can suffer many of the disorders you mention. So we need to remove these so called sufferers / real sufferers of any disorders from the equation.They might I agree have grown up with parents that thought normal was fat.

I also know many overweight people who have tried various diets and weight loss programs and received advice from GPs, but only ever managed temporary weight loss

Come live with me and they will lose weight, not by exercise just by reduced consumption and food types.

It's easy to argue that is their own faults, but IMO, there is an awful lot of misinformation out there about weight and weight loss. Blaming obese people for obesity is a little like blaming poor people for being poor.

I never blamed anyone in my reply.
Poor people.I am poor compared to most, I have take away meals twice a year, havent been in a pub / resturant in ten or more years, never been abroad / package holiday. Wore pass me down clothes, two to a bed.......shall I go on.......and yes blamed for being poor because I am lazy, thats what they think, but we now know that being poor is who your parents are and what club they belong too.
Misinformation......yes about magic diets

In order to change the way things are, we need to
-support and encourage people from a young age to have healthy eating and activity habits
-provide holistic support for people and give them healthy coping mechanisms, instead of prescribing anti-depressants
-create an environment in which active travel and healthy eating are encouraged
-educate people about cooking, diet, & food management, so they don't resort to unhealthy alternatives for cost and convenience

Yes
Yes
Yes
And...Yes.......I agree.

[Psamathe]

And the ruling has implications:
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2014/12/20/greggs-to-fill-out-prescriptions-for-certified-obese-patients/

Ian

[Malaconotus]

The problem is absolutely not as simple as excessive calorie consumption. Each individual in this country consumes, on average, 25% fewer today calories than in 1975. (Source, this book, which anyone pontificating here would do very well to read... http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Energy-Glut ... 1848135181)

[beardy]

You just can not take an average figure and then say that this means each individual anything. Averages tell you nothing about any individual, real or imaginary.

Apart from that point about abuse of statistics it can still be as simple as energy in "v" energy out if the energy out has on average come down by more than 25% since 1975.
Though the energy out may not be as simple as miles walked or on a bike so much as fuel burned by the body in a higher metabolic rate due to less heating and plenty of little bits of activity now done for us by machines.

[dodger]

Vorpal talks a lot of sense. There is always a reason that a person is overweight. Mental ill health is one such and poor education another.
The trouble comes when we try to define what overweight is. Where is the cut-off point? Who decides? Who is so righteous that they can judge others?
It's true that the only way to lose weight sensibly is to reduce calorie intake, but it ain't easy.
What we need is an accurate diagnostic tool for determining why someone is overweight and a range of support to help them get to a healthier weight, not a ruling that they are disabled or a lot of "holier-than-thou" pontification.

[reohn2]

And the ruling has implications:
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2014/12/20/greggs-to-fill-out-prescriptions-for-certified-obese-patients/

Ian

[freeflow]

What we need is an accurate diagnostic tool for determining why someone is overweight and a range of support to help them get to a healthier weight

With tongue well and truly stuffed in cheek.

The diagnostic used to be not being able to run faster then the lion/tiger/etc.

These days I suppose its not being able to walk to the take away!!!

[beardy]

Exercise more, eat less or you will put on more weight. It really is that simple.

Now whether people want to have a BMI in a particular range more than they want the pleasure of some food and sitting around doing nothing gets a little more complicated.
Exercise could be easy, hard, difficult, painful or even impossible.
Diet can have restrictions from poverty, intolerances, work shift patterns etc.

Also the further you get from your target weight the harder it gets to go back and the longer it will take.
You may even just give up as the task is looking insurmountable.

I do think that people should be blunt about it when people are at a BMI lower than my present one, just so nobody can get away with pretending that when they have that snack or get in the car that it is somebody else's fault.

I remember my mum's doctor used to tell her this when ever she went for yet another prescription for yet another ailment bought on by her weight. Admittedly it didnt work and prevent her from eating any more cakes and sweets. She just got a new doctor who didnt nag her!

[Psamathe]

The problem is absolutely not as simple as excessive calorie consumption. Each individual in this country consumes, on average, 25% fewer today calories than in 1975. (Source, this book, which anyone pontificating here would do very well to read... http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Energy-Glut ... 1848135181)

Historical data needs to be looked at in more detail to provide any guidance. For example, in 1975 people spent a lot less time playing with their XBox/PlayStation/etc. I would suspect people spent less time watching TV and more time doing stuff. Even watching TV, most would have had to get out of their chairs to change channel/volume.

Probably loads of other considerations as well.
(But I must confess I already have a decent pile of books waiting to be read so that book will not be on my Christmas list).

Ian

[Malaconotus]

The problem is absolutely not as simple as excessive calorie consumption. Each individual in this country consumes, on average, 25% fewer today calories than in 1975. (Source, this book, which anyone pontificating here would do very well to read... http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Energy-Glut ... 1848135181)

Historical data needs to be looked at in more detail to provide any guidance. For example, in 1975 people spent a lot less time playing with their XBox/PlayStation/etc. I would suspect people spent less time watching TV and more time doing stuff. Even watching TV, most would have had to get out of their chairs to change channel/volume.

Probably loads of other considerations as well.
(But I must confess I already have a decent pile of books waiting to be read so that book will not be on my Christmas list).

Ian

Well, exactly, but for all the discussion upthread you would have thought the only thing that had changed was folk guzzling more calories, which is just plain false.

[reohn2]

You can explain and educate all you want, but when an (artificially tasty) kebab, chips and can of pop costs £1.99, people will continue to get fatter. This sort of "food" is too cheap, 12" pizzas for .99p, eat one and your body will still tell you it's hungry, so what do you do? Eat another or get the the kebab of course!

I have recently started working in a hospital, I have never seen so many fat people in my life, a huge % are obese (the far greater % are women), these employees work, surrounded by leaflets and posters dedicated to giving healthy eating and drinking advice. What do they eat at break times? Fast food from the plethora of local shops, and I'd guess the average meal "spend" at £2. These employees are educated professionals, so, how are those who are not constantly reminded of the need for healthy eating going to be "educated"?

If I walk out at 3.30 ish, whole families are crammed into the fast food outlets, that is where the majority, locally, obtain their food, it fills the kids up and is cheaper and more convenient, than the parent making anything. Within a 200m stretch of road, I'd guess there are at least 15 such outlets, that is outlets than only sell fried chicken, burgers, chips, kebabs, pizzas and pop.

TBH I think this is the problem,food that's 'bad' food is available cheaply,cooked in fat and or full of sugar and salt,and worst of all it's tastes OK.
Soft drinks are the same.
I'm always surprised how many health workers are overweight and smoke

[MarkF]

TBH I think this is the problem,food that's 'bad' food is available cheaply,cooked in fat and or full of sugar and salt,and worst of all it's tastes OK.
Soft drinks are the same.
I'm always surprised how many health workers are overweight and smoke

Yep, never seen so many smokers as I have at the hospital, like I've been teleported back to 1975. Every smoker WILL go for a "break" each hour, and because they cannot smoke in the grounds, that's a 5 minute walk each way to a smoking area, add on 10 minutes for fag and a full 30% of their day is spent being paid to smoke. You can imagine what this does for his the non-smokers morale and gives you some indication of why the NHS is always short of staff/time/money.

That's another debate, but, if NHS staff smoke like troopers and eat crap each day, how are others going to be educated?

[Graham]

I'm always surprised how many health workers are overweight and smoke

If I were a health worker I would probably overeat, over-drink AND smoke.
They are in a working environment with an infinite demand on the limited resources.
In addition the NHS is a popular political football.