Emigration

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Ben@Forest
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Re: Emigration

Postby Ben@Forest » 12 May 2015, 6:13pm

Going back to the original topic I've just noted Paul o'Grady's show on TV. It was probably recorded three months ago but o'Grady said he would emigrate to Venice if the Tories won the election. Does anyone know if he's doing so? I'm not trying to make a point but would be interested to know if someone actually followed through on this sort of threat.

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barrym
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Re: Emigration

Postby barrym » 12 May 2015, 7:45pm

Ben@Forest wrote:Going back to the original topic I've just noted Paul o'Grady's show on TV. It was probably recorded three months ago but o'Grady said he would emigrate to Venice if the Tories won the election. Does anyone know if he's doing so? I'm not trying to make a point but would be interested to know if someone actually followed through on this sort of threat.


Phil Collins did apparently.

If many people heard Paul's threat it would explain the surge of conservative votes:-)
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Psamathe
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Re: Emigration

Postby Psamathe » 12 May 2015, 8:05pm

al_yrpal wrote:You may be flogging a dead horse by trying to control doctors and dentists. I was reading that large numbers of younger ones are heading to Oz where life is easier and pay is better. This can only get worse when they have 8 til 8 doctors surgeries, weekends too as promised by the Torys, they are going to love that! Dentists are mostly detached anyway.

Al

The Conservatives promise of seeing GPs at weekends was (and is) just daft. Similarly, Labour promise of seeing your GP within 48 hours was equally daft. Both promises show just how little politicians understand how things work in the real world. If I phone to make an appointment with my GP the earliest appointment I will get will be over 2 weeks away. I suspect that many with more trivial reasons for seeing their GP will just not bother with such a waiting list. Others will get better within that time and hopefully call to cancel their appointment. So the 2+ week wait becomes a natural filter sifting out those who really don't need to trouble their GP. So suddenly somehow, our GPs are happily going to start working evenings and weekends, seeing more patients (probably with more trivial illnesses). If GPs were feeling over worked, "backs against the wall" in a high stress job, I'm sure they would love the prospect of seeing even more people with magically reducing their waitig lists to 48 hours. Or as it turns out, working evenings and weekends so people who are not sick enough to take time off work can now needlessly trouble their GPs in the evening and at the weekend. Is it any surprise there is a shortage of GPs and that so many are intending to retire early. Reported recently that a third of GPs are intending to retire within the next 5 years (source BMA reported in the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/15/nhs-stress-third-gps-plan-retire-five-years). And you can hardly blame them with current workloads and the proposals from our politicians.

Iqn

Ben@Forest
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Re: Emigration

Postby Ben@Forest » 13 May 2015, 12:06pm

Psamathe wrote:The Conservatives promise of seeing GPs at weekends was (and is) just daft. Similarly, Labour promise of seeing your GP within 48 hours was equally daft. Both promises show just how little politicians understand how things work in the real world. If I phone to make an appointment with my GP the earliest appointment I will get will be over 2 weeks away.


Is this a genuine statistic though in terms of actually being able to see your (or a) GP - or just in terms of being seen via an appointment ? I just wonder because I have been a patient at three different medical centres since 1997. In all three I could/can walk in and wait to see a GP or could/can make an appointment. I never made an appointment so don't know what the waiting time is but just by walking in don't think I've ever waited more than about an hour.

The downside of just walking is not necessarily seeing 'your' doctor, though I guess you could wait until he/she could see you and double your waiting time, and of course not knowing when you might get to work (though if you're sick enough to see a GP that really is a secondary consideration). I can't see the problem with GPs at least providing a service on Saturdays, it would be convenient and it's not as if working Saturdays is unusual for thousands (if not millions) of people. And it might of course increase employment too.

*Just remembered - four medical centres since 1997 but one of them I don't think I ever bothered.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Emigration

Postby al_yrpal » 13 May 2015, 12:36pm

We are obviously very lucky here appointments are never more than 2 or 3 days as well as you are not particular about which doctor and if its urgent you get seen the same day. You can walk in and see the nurses without an appointment too for something minor. The pharmacist at the chemist is quite accessible as well.

Al
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TonyR
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Re: Emigration

Postby TonyR » 13 May 2015, 1:28pm

al_yrpal wrote:We are obviously very lucky here appointments are never more than 2 or 3 days as well as you are not particular about which doctor and if its urgent you get seen the same day. You can walk in and see the nurses without an appointment too for something minor. The pharmacist at the chemist is quite accessible as well.

Al


Same here and they keep a period at the end of the morning surgery for urgent cases walking/phoning in that morning.

I've also had good experiences a couple of times with the NHS 111 phone line. Phoned up one morning with a deep muscle pain in my leg after a long haul flight. By the end of the morning I had been seen by a GP unit within the local hospital, sent up for a full ultrasound scan for any DVT and given the all clear.

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bovlomov
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Re: Emigration

Postby bovlomov » 13 May 2015, 1:59pm

Mostly unrelated to privatisation, this Guardian article is about "curbing unnecessary treatment" or "rationing care" [delete according to taste].

Doctors are to stop giving patients scores of tests and treatments, such as x-rays for back pain and antibiotics for flu, in an unprecedented crackdown on the “over-medicalisation” of illness.

In a move that has roused fears that it will lead to the widespread rationing of NHS care, the body representing the UK’s 250,000 doctors is seeking to ensure that patients no longer undergo treatment that is unlikely to work, may harm them and wastes valuable resources.


I hope all will agree that wasting resources is a bad thing, and, irrespective of privatisation, wastefulness should be minimised. Mind you, as plenty of people profit from waste, stopping it won't be easy. Expect much gnashing of teeth from surgeons, unions, suppliers and others.

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mjr
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Re: Emigration

Postby mjr » 13 May 2015, 3:27pm

Ben@Forest wrote:The downside of just walking is not necessarily seeing 'your' doctor, though I guess you could wait until he/she could see you and double your waiting time, and of course not knowing when you might get to work (though if you're sick enough to see a GP that really is a secondary consideration).

Not necessarily so. GPs handle both acute and chronic illnesses and there can be huge benefits in chronic care from having the same few practitioners involved - as long as they're any good at managing that illness.

During the Cameron government, I experienced a practice which allocated appointments by phone wardialling lottery, one which gave you a time but wouldn't say which doctor you'd see (I suspect it was whoever came free next) and my current one which will book routine appointments, or you can get an acute appointment with someone within two days, or you can walk-in and wait for an urgent appointment to become available.
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Psamathe
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Re: Emigration

Postby Psamathe » 13 May 2015, 3:44pm

The 2+ week waiting time for appointments is for seeing any of the practice GPs not my "own".

On the one occasion where I needed to see a GP urgently I knew it was not urgent but I said the "chest pain" magic word" and the GPs see you during their lunch breaks. Same with calling you on the phone (when you phone for an appointment there is a message about asking your GP to telephone you instead of an appointment) - which they do during their lunch break.

Same problems getting an appointment at my parents practice (who will only book to a max. 2 weeks ahead). One person stays at homeand at 8:00am starts dialling and redialling and redialling in the hope of getting through whilst at 7:30am somebody goes and joins the already long queue outside the practice and you hope you get an appointment. Normally you repeat the same performance the next day. So these days people often drive to the nearest city where there is a walk-in centre.

I can only comment on these two practices as I have no experience of any others (so my comment is anecdotal).

Ian

TonyR
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Re: Emigration

Postby TonyR » 13 May 2015, 6:21pm

Psamathe wrote:On the one occasion where I needed to see a GP urgently I knew it was not urgent but I said the "chest pain" magic word".


That subterfuge may mean you now have a reputation and have difficulty getting an appointment.

Psamathe
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Re: Emigration

Postby Psamathe » 13 May 2015, 6:39pm

TonyR wrote:
Psamathe wrote:On the one occasion where I needed to see a GP urgently I knew it was not urgent but I said the "chest pain" magic word".


That subterfuge may mean you now have a reputation and have difficulty getting an appointment.

I didn't use the word deliberately. I spoke to the Dr on the phone 1st, explained that it was NOT a heart/circulation issue and was NOT urgent and that to me I thought it was an infection/cartilage issue. But he insisted, despite my protestations that I come in next day and have an ECG and then see him. So I tried and tried and explained the non-urgency but they insisted. So I doubt I have any reputation. And my latest difficulty getting an appointment was after some hospital tests and the Dr had asked me to book an appointment. I called-in and said to reception that they can just tell me the results - but no. So I said can Dr call me to give me the results and they asked Dr and he said "no" and that I had to go in and see him. So again, not me seeking an appointment, more me trying to avoid an appointment.

I also explained to Dr how I'd had an ECG and loads of other circulation tests several years ago (needed to get my pilots license in France - they are kind of fussy) and that they were all absolutely fine but Dr insisted.

Sorry if my post was not clear, but I did not use the magic "chest pain" word seeking an urgent appointment (using subterfuge) but it was kind of necessary to describe the issue (i.e. I had a pain in my chest and there aren't many ways to use different words ...).

Ian

beardy
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Re: Emigration

Postby beardy » 13 May 2015, 9:45pm

bovlomov wrote:Mostly unrelated to privatisation, this Guardian article is about "curbing unnecessary treatment" or "rationing care" [delete according to taste].

Doctors are to stop giving patients scores of tests and treatments, such as x-rays for back pain and antibiotics for flu, in an unprecedented crackdown on the “over-medicalisation” of illness.

In a move that has roused fears that it will lead to the widespread rationing of NHS care, the body representing the UK’s 250,000 doctors is seeking to ensure that patients no longer undergo treatment that is unlikely to work, may harm them and wastes valuable resources.


I hope all will agree that wasting resources is a bad thing, and, irrespective of privatisation, wastefulness should be minimised. Mind you, as plenty of people profit from waste, stopping it won't be easy. Expect much gnashing of teeth from surgeons, unions, suppliers and others.


This is exactly the sort of thing that I and many others (I thought including yourself) have been calling for for ages. Though I hope they dont cut physiotherapists along with the medication instead of using them more instead of medication. That would be the point which lets you know if it is rationing or curbing the unnecessary.

francovendee
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Re: Emigration

Postby francovendee » 15 May 2015, 10:38am

Edwards wrote:Now that we have this govt in power again I am considering leaving.

I would like to live in a country where the poor have a wage they can at least feed themselves on. The old will be able to afford to be looked after with dignity and respect when they need it.
The sick will have proper health care without private medical insurance.

I am getting to an age where I have to think about my future care and health. The only reasonable care system for somebody who is not rich now is prison.
So before I get I get ill where should I sail to?

I'm not sure if you are seriously contemplating a move but if you are then I can recommend France as a good place to live, certainly the part where I live
( the Vendee) The climate is good, winters not too cold but can be a bit damp. The road users are aware of cyclists and generally are careful and not aggressive or inconsiderate to cyclists. We have a very good health service and the French are usually polite and friendly. The big BUT is the language, I get by, but not fluently by any means and it's this, combined with getting older that makes people decide to pack up and return to the UK. They worry how they'd cope as the brain cells start to work less well. In two years five couples we know have gone back for these reasons. My advice would be to bear this in mind and go to an English speaking country and if not, do your best to learn the language and integrate with the life of the town or village as fully as you can.
Don't burn all your bridges, who knows you may want to return to the UK someday, it's still a great place to live, even if you don't agree with the politics.

Edwards
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Re: Emigration

Postby Edwards » 15 May 2015, 11:30am

francovendee wrote:
Edwards wrote:Now that we have this govt in power again I am considering leaving.

I would like to live in a country where the poor have a wage they can at least feed themselves on. The old will be able to afford to be looked after with dignity and respect when they need it.
The sick will have proper health care without private medical insurance.

I am getting to an age where I have to think about my future care and health. The only reasonable care system for somebody who is not rich now is prison.
So before I get I get ill where should I sail to?

I'm not sure if you are seriously contemplating a move but if you are then I can recommend France as a good place to live, certainly the part where I live
( the Vendee) The climate is good, winters not too cold but can be a bit damp. The road users are aware of cyclists and generally are careful and not aggressive or inconsiderate to cyclists. We have a very good health service and the French are usually polite and friendly. The big BUT is the language, I get by, but not fluently by any means and it's this, combined with getting older that makes people decide to pack up and return to the UK. They worry how they'd cope as the brain cells start to work less well. In two years five couples we know have gone back for these reasons. My advice would be to bear this in mind and go to an English speaking country and if not, do your best to learn the language and integrate with the life of the town or village as fully as you can.
Don't burn all your bridges, who knows you may want to return to the UK someday, it's still a great place to live, even if you don't agree with the politics.


I love the Vendee we have had some wonderful holidays around St Jean De Montes (not in it). The only downside is the Mosies MrsE even got bitten on so delicate places.
When in France I always try to speak French but a Brumee/Scouse accent does not mix with French that well. Even leads to some amusement for the French.

I am not realy serious about emigrating but despair at the state of this country for some people who live here. I blame all politicians no matter what party they represent (they certainly do not represent the voters).
I just can not see things improving ever no matter who is in power.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

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gentlegreen
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Re: Emigration

Postby gentlegreen » 15 May 2015, 1:26pm

francovendee wrote: I can recommend France as a good place to live, certainly the part where I live
( the Vendee)

I have evolving plans to emigrate to the pointy bit of Finistère in 5 years' time (I'm used to a bit of weather and like the sea to fight back a bit).
I have a modest company pension I can take from age 60 without losing too much, a frugal lifestyle, and actually enjoy growing my own food - I have the real beginnings of passable French - I've always had French colleagues and have dreamed of living in France since my teens...

The fly in the ointment is the danger that the UK will end up outside the EU so I'm guessing that I would have to carry on paying for health insurance even after I reach 66 ? Presumably I would still be eligible for my (frozen ?) state pension thereby at least being able to afford healthcare ?