Refreshed and Energised Labour Party

[661-Pete]

Amusing, isn't it, how people of different political complexions can twist the words 'winning' or 'losing' to suit their own agendas.

I think a good impartial definition of 'winning' can be interpreted as 'doing better than expected'. But that begs the question: What was 'expected'? Clearly a lot of opinion polls have been shown to be inaccurate, yet again, so people have got rather cheesed-off with them. Leastways, I have.

A rather personal analogy: nothing to do with politics - thankfully! I regularly play bridge online, and sometimes I go in for one of the tournaments that the site hosts online. I'm not a demon player, and I don't expect to do very well! Well, a few weeks ago, I came last out of a field of 26, in a pairs tourney. I don't think anyone would dispute that I was on that occasion a 'loser'. No question about it . But on another occasion, in an individual tourney, I came second out of a field of 52. To me, that counts as a sensational - and wholly unexpected - 'win '. Even though I wasn't actually the winner. My normal placing is about two-thirds of the way down the field. So that's where I expect to end up. Any big departure from that position is notable.

So it is, perhaps, with politics. Labour were expected - by most people, even those who scoff at the polls - to end up well down the field, losing seats and votes. The opposite happened. So - shall we call it an 'advance' for Labour? Not a 'win' because that will instantly attract howls of derision from the right-wingers on this forum. But an 'advance'.

Conversely, for the Conservatives (and their soulmates the Kippers).....

[meic]

I think a good impartial definition of 'winning' can be interpreted as 'doing better than expected'.

Nope, not the same thing as winning at all. That is just exceeding expectations.

The Conservatives won, a simple fact. It just wasnt a very good win and it is Labour who are celebrating the quality of their win, not the Conservatives.

Though it appears the biggest winners and happiest celebrators are the DUP.

[661-Pete]

Well it was my definition of 'winning'. Disagree if you like!

Here's another example of what 'winning' means.

"At least you've won a hand, that's the important thing."

[thirdcrank]

My summary would be that the Conservative (and Unionist?) Party won the election, but Theresa May lost it.

[Psamathe]

My summary would be that the Conservative (and Unionist?) Party won the election, but Theresa May lost it.

I think that is a very important point people need to remember in their visions of prospects for the Labour Party. Labour and Corbyn certainly did well, achieved a lot, etc. but also they were up against a real disaster from the Conservatives. I'm no runner (nor jogger) and if I do a 100m sprint against Eric Pickles then I'll probably win, but put me up against Usain Bolt and he's won before I react to the starting gun.

Results are relative and Labour actually didn't have much competition. But they are in a good position to pull together and move forward. They have good prospects provided they recognise they wont be given such an easy ride next time.

(Personal opinion)

Ian

[reohn2]

As you say "personal opinion" which is all anyone can offer on here

[francovendee]

My summary would be that the Conservative (and Unionist?) Party won the election, but Theresa May lost it.

I think that is a very important point people need to remember in their visions of prospects for the Labour Party. Labour and Corbyn certainly did well, achieved a lot, etc. but also they were up against a real disaster from the Conservatives. I'm no runner (nor jogger) and if I do a 100m sprint against Eric Pickles then I'll probably win, but put me up against Usain Bolt and he's won before I react to the starting gun.

Results are relative and Labour actually didn't have much competition. But they are in a good position to pull together and move forward. They have good prospects provided they recognise they wont be given such an easy ride next time.

(Personal opinion)

Ian

You are right up to a point. The media is full of what a poor campaign she had but had she achieved the result she hoped for the media would be saying what a brilliant campaign she fought.

[Cyril Haearn]

If you want a real fire-breathing militaristic anthem, you need only turn to our nearest continental neighbours:

Allons enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé!
Contre nous de la tyrannie,
L'étendard sanglant est levé,
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras
Égorger nos fils, nos compagnes!

[pardon my French..... ]

The saving grace is that, quite possibly, a lot of French people don't actually know the words...... I knew only the first two lines, from memory, but then I'm not French....

Australians let us all rejoice
For we are young and free
We b*****s took the black man's land
And threw him in the sea

..... .