Cycle Travel Question

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Bmblbzzz wrote:Ooh, looks like you've been visiting the Kiftsgate stone! I love OS maps but I've got rather fond of the muted earthy pallet of whatever it is that c.t uses.


c.t's default map style is its own - i.e. one I've developed. (Though a friend did compare it to the old Bartholomews maps and I think there's something in that!)

LittleGreyCat wrote:On the subject of OS maps.

I am a supporter so I should be fine, I think.

However I have a subscription with OS maps so in theory I could be entitled to use them anyway even if I wasn't a supporter.
Security and stuff may be complex, but would it be possible to register your OS account with Cycle.Travel and use that to obtain the maps?


OS don't offer that facility I'm afraid - some websites allow you to use their login system elsewhere (e.g. Facebook, Twitter, Google) but OS isn't one of them.

LittleGreyCat wrote:Edit 2: Using a route that I know I seem to be able to get a plan along a bridleway then a footpath.
However it throws a wobbler near where the footpath joins a road and insists on looping back on itself.
Now wondering if the footpath is graded into gentle and rough or something.
https://cycle.travel/map/journey/210335
I foresee loads of fun. :-)


The underlying routing is still cycle.travel's own, which is ultimately based on OpenStreetMap data. It's only the display map that changes if you select Ordnance Survey. In this case it's just because cycle.travel doesn't like routing on rural footpaths without bicycle access - if you add another via point between 2 and 3, then you can carry on along the footpath through to Hemley.

mjr wrote:Could the c.t map style have barrier markings added, or these appear in the turn by turns, please?


I'll take a look! Turn-by-turn is unlikely (for boring technical reasons) but I don't see any reason not to have them on the map - I'll have to do a bit of tweaking as they're currently not imported into the rendering database.
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531colin
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by 531colin »

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Something new for Easter weekend...

Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 20.39.45.png
Ordnance Survey maps!

You can now use OS maps (1:50k Explorer or 1:25k Landranger) when planning a route on cycle.travel. The routing is still the same cycle.travel routing, but you can use OS as a background map.

OS charge for their maps (of course) so I can't offer them for free on cycle.travel, sadly - but you get them if you sign up as a cycle.travel supporter. (Satellite maps too.) I'm hoping to add other specialist European and American maps for supporters in due course too.


Richard, thats wonderful!
I haven't played with it yet.....will it let me route on bridlepaths/byways etc using OS classification of rights of way? (I have almost given up on OS own routing.....awful!)
And it works on routes in my archive as well!!
Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Psamathe »

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Something new for Easter weekend...

Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 20.39.45.png
Ordnance Survey maps!
.....

Great that things are ongoing development and nothing negative about this feature. It highlights to me how OS mapping is quite "Marmite" these days. When I got my 1st smartphone I got ViewRanger app and purchased entire UK OS maps. But then after some time (months) I deleted out all the OS UK mapping and downloaded OpenStreetMap mapping as I preferred it to the OS - despite having purchased the OS mapping I preferred the OSM enough to "write-off" the OS purchase (it was a one-time-payment, non-refundable purchase). And that despite having been brought-up on Ordnance Survey through school, walking holidays, etc. so well familiar with their symbols, conventions, etc.

These days, using MapOut I love the rendering and whilst in the app you don't get the option of OS, I'd stick with the OSM, partcularly as rendered in MapOut.

But I do recognise some far prefer the OS mapping - each to their own (no right/wrong or better/worse - just personal preferences).

Ian
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Bmblbzzz »

That Bartholomews comparison hadn't occurred to me - but those were such clear maps, that can only be a massive compliment!
crossy
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by crossy »

How do you sign up to be a supporter and how much is it.
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Richard Fairhurst
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Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

531colin wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 12:55pmRichard, thats wonderful!
I haven't played with it yet.....will it let me route on bridlepaths/byways etc using OS classification of rights of way? (I have almost given up on OS own routing.....awful!)
The routing is exactly the same as it was before - nothing's changed. It's just the display map that changes if you select Ordnance Survey. The routing calculations are still done with cycle.travel's OSM-based data. (Believe it or not, Ordnance Survey don't actually have routable mapping data for bridleways, cycleways and the like other than in National Parks.)
Psamathe wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 12:59pmThese days, using MapOut I love the rendering and whilst in the app you don't get the option of OS, I'd stick with the OSM, partcularly as rendered in MapOut.
I agree - MapOut is great and I use it all the time. And I feel a certain kinship with them as indie outdoor mapping developers vs the VC-funded behemoths of Komoot and Strava et al...
crossy wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 3:41pm How do you sign up to be a supporter and how much is it.
It's £2 a month (or more if you're feeling generous!). The details are at patreon.com/cycle_travel (or the red "Become a supporter" boxes on cycle.travel) - just sign up with Patreon with the same email address as you use for your cycle.travel account.
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ChrisF
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by ChrisF »

Grinton Moor oddities: I tried planning a ride in Yorkshire, starting from the bridge in Grinton and heading SE to the crossroads at Leyburn Moor. The suggested route takes me on a long route, including 'A' and 'B' roads, rather than the shorter route on a 'C' road. I can see it's less steep that way, but twice as far. Also, if I pull the finish point back towards Grinton along the direct route, the suggestion is still to take the longer route, making it 4 times as far! https://cycle.travel/map/journey/211698.
Then if I move the finish point back further, the planner does take me up the steep hill but also goes on a footpath halfway up, and even if I try I can't make it stick to the road! https://cycle.travel/map/journey/211716 I've looked on OSM and there doesn't appear to be anything unusual about that bit of road - there is a bridge but it's all standard stuff..
Can others try? Is it just me?
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Paulatic
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Paulatic »

Your first route is starting on a path which won’t allow it to be paved only.
CT appears to have a break in the road at Cogden moor
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Looks like the bridge was closed over the winter. It's now reopened - I'm about to run a routing update so that should be reflected in the routing in a few days' time.
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ChrisF
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by ChrisF »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 8:47pm Looks like the bridge was closed over the winter. It's now reopened - I'm about to run a routing update so that should be reflected in the routing in a few days' time.
Ah, right! Sorry, I should have delved deeper into OSM. "Bridge destroyed by a flood in July 2019". That would also explain the router taking the long way round to the top of the hill.
Very often, when riding around, there is a 'closed road' sign and in 90% of cases it's still OK to cycle though. Broken bridges are the exception!
Chris F, Cornwall
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by SA_SA_SA »

I feel it would better for an auto route planner to also work easily as a simple route plotter (i.e. by simply turning autorouting off) rather than requiring a separate tool. If you start with autorouting but need a lot of adjustments etc, the constant autorouting and correction cycle seems unnecessary and tedious but having to decide in advance to use a dumb plotter seems inflexible...

Perhaps best for an autorouter to also easily work as a dumb plotter via an interactive auto onoff button rather than require swapping between app/websites?.....

One router/plotter to rule them all but in the brightness help them....?


Thanks for all the maps :) .
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

The problem with that is when you say "simply", in practice it means "rewrite the entire routing engine and user interface", I'm afraid!
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Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Psamathe »

One minor feature request (might already be there and I've missed it). For route planning I'll often specify Start and End points then add via points to tweak the route (reduce ascent). Then on to next leg and e.g. new end point (or start point) but the vias (maybe quite a few now) remain. Some option to remove all via points would be nice. But also I do recognise that more and more options complicates the User Interface and accommodating everybody's "minor requests" might result in a horrendously complex number of options.

Ian
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 1:08pm The problem with that is when you say "simply", in practice it means "rewrite the entire routing engine and user interface", I'm afraid!
Oh dear , was some code not encapsulated in the right place?
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

SA_SA_SA wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 4:07pmOh dear , was some code not encapsulated in the right place?
With the best will in the world... I have to be realistic about this. cycle.travel is developed by me in every moment I can get. It pays its hosting bills (yay!) but not yet the time I spend on it, and certainly not my day-to-day living costs. I do it, mostly, because I love it... and there's only one of me.

So I have to be focused on what I want it to do. Engineering it in such a way that it could be adapted to do absolutely everything wouldn't be efficient, and would mean currently simple changes would take hours longer. Instead, I have to prioritise what I think will make a difference in cycle.travel's particular niche.

Quick example: cycle.travel does have the ability to jump from one via point to another (the "go direct" option) without routing. If you've used it you'll notice that it doesn't exactly match the start and end points - the straight line will sometimes be a bit further along the road that your via point is on. I'm sure that's fixable. The "go direct" option is something I grafted on to OSRM, the amazing routing engine at the heart of cycle.travel. I'd estimate it would take two or three days of work deep inside OSRM to work out exactly what the PhantomNode datatype is doing at that point and how to get it to snap exactly to the via point. But in two days, there are many other things I can do that will make more of a difference to cycle.travel's users than that. Of course, if you want to take the OSRM 4.9.1 codebase and supply a patch to do it, I'd be delighted!

Honestly: if you want a plotter, use RideWithGPS. It's great. I do not have the time, nor the funding, nor the personal desire, to reimplement RWGPS inside cycle.travel. Maybe Komoot do - they've gone out to get literally millions in third-party investor funding and have 50+ employees. That's fine - it isn't realistic for me to build the ultimate routing engine on my own. It's good that there are several sites available.
Psamathe wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 1:23pm One minor feature request (might already be there and I've missed it). For route planning I'll often specify Start and End points then add via points to tweak the route (reduce ascent). Then on to next leg and e.g. new end point (or start point) but the vias (maybe quite a few now) remain. Some option to remove all via points would be nice.
Absolutely - I'd like to do that. The "Get route" button actually used to remove all the via points when clicked again, which I think was sensible behaviour. That fell away when I reworked the via point handling but I'd like to bring it back.
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