European trains - sleeper service

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markjohnobrien
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by markjohnobrien »

Trains to York, Newcastle, Berwick, et al, all used to have enormous guards vans with lots of storage space albeit you had to be careful the guards van door was unlocked.

The newer trains have far less storage space and I get the impression that cycle storage was perceived as something to be removed or reduced to increase seat numbers.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
Jdsk
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by Jdsk »

glucas wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 8:02pmIt was interesting to read on here that the LNER or maybe cross country trains is perceived as being problematic now (in terms of bike carriage), whereas before it was easier. I wonder why? Is it the new Azuma train or did they change the booking system? I am thinking east coast here.
LNER and Azuma discussed here, with links to descriptions of the rolling stock:
viewtopic.php?p=1593534#p1593534

Jonathan
glucas
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by glucas »

Thanks for the heads up. I experienced both the guards van and the Azuma bike racks. I toured in July/August which was just when the lockdown eased. There were not that many people touring so I was lucky as there was minimal contention for bike spaces. When things open up - :shock:
markjohnobrien
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by markjohnobrien »

Yes, that’s why it’s essential to book.

Once, I got on a train to Berwick to find that other passengers had piled their luggage in the cycle area - what a handy additional luggage area!

Luckily, no other bikes were blocked in and I had no qualms in moving the luggage away. The guard intervened and asked other passengers (via the tannoy) to move their bags which they argumentatively did.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
glucas
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by glucas »

:lol: Nice one!

Surprised I didn't read about that in the Daily Mail. Angry cyclist fracas in guards van.
simonhill
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by simonhill »

Maybe the mods should split this post. More than half of it is not about the new Europe sleeper service.

An amended title of something like New Proposed Europe Sleeper Service, which could be updated as news emerges would get the post back on track.
markjohnobrien
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by markjohnobrien »

Good idea.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
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mjr
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by mjr »

Seat61.com says:
"Proposed times have been spotted on a Czech infrastructure website. These suggest Oostende depart 18:04, Brussels dep. 19:31, Amsterdam dep. 21:59, Prague 09:56. This implies a Berlin arrival around 05:30. And yes, the train will now serve Oostende, Bruges & Ghent as well as Brussels! Westbound, Prague dep. 19:10, Amsterdam arr. 06:01, Brussels arr. 08:39, Oostende 09:56. "

Oostende is 45 miles from Dunkirk port, so a 9am ferry from Dover and a nice ride along the new D601 and EV4 cycleway through the town and then quiet roads and cycleways along the coast (but not actually the busy promenade!) would let you join the sleeper. Westbound, you should be at the port in time for the 4pm ferry back, arriving 5pm UK time.

At the moment, it says "Regiojet own some cars capable of carrying bikes, but it's not known if such cars will be included in this train" but how silly would they be not to carry bikes on trains serving Flanders and the Netherlands?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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markjohnobrien
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by markjohnobrien »

mjr wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 9:57pm Seat61.com says:
"Proposed times have been spotted on a Czech infrastructure website. These suggest Oostende depart 18:04, Brussels dep. 19:31, Amsterdam dep. 21:59, Prague 09:56. This implies a Berlin arrival around 05:30. And yes, the train will now serve Oostende, Bruges & Ghent as well as Brussels! Westbound, Prague dep. 19:10, Amsterdam arr. 06:01, Brussels arr. 08:39, Oostende 09:56. "

Oostende is 45 miles from Dunkirk port, so a 9am ferry from Dover and a nice ride along the new D601 and EV4 cycleway through the town and then quiet roads and cycleways along the coast (but not actually the busy promenade!) would let you join the sleeper. Westbound, you should be at the port in time for the 4pm ferry back, arriving 5pm UK time.

At the moment, it says "Regiojet own some cars capable of carrying bikes, but it's not known if such cars will be included in this train" but how silly would they be not to carry bikes on trains serving Flanders and the Netherlands?

Thanks for the update.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
glucas
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by glucas »

I don't know if this seems like a stupid question, as I don't know much about the train industry, but why are there not proposals for overnight sleepers from London to central and southern Europe? Is it because of tunnel regulations? Or just because of the London-Brussels/Paris Eurostar connections making it redundant.
markjohnobrien
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by markjohnobrien »

It all depends on whether companies think there is a market for this product and can make a profit.

Also, train companies in Britain are not exactly cycling friendly as when they introduce new rolling stock there is always a reduction in cycle spaces, not an increase.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
glucas
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by glucas »

Thanks. It looks like this has been in the news recently:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... e-on-track

Nothing about bike carriage though. I take your point - profit unfortunately is the priority.
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mjr
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by mjr »

glucas wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 9:29am I don't know if this seems like a stupid question, as I don't know much about the train industry, but why are there not proposals for overnight sleepers from London to central and southern Europe? Is it because of tunnel regulations? Or just because of the London-Brussels/Paris Eurostar connections making it redundant.
British border regulations are probably the biggest obstacle now, with the sleeper operator needing to pay for border checks at some station and agree to return unauthorised passengers. Other sleepers have relaxations such as allowing checks between stations that reportedtly the UK does not allow.

There is currently no sleeper stock capable of using the tunnel and HS1 (which is bigger than the old lines, so could take couchette cars that won't fit smaller UK lines, but the line tilts so much trains have to run fast or you would slide to the end of the bed) but I expect that could be overcome if it was financially worthwhile.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
glucas
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by glucas »

mjr wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 10:10am
glucas wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 9:29am I don't know if this seems like a stupid question, as I don't know much about the train industry, but why are there not proposals for overnight sleepers from London to central and southern Europe? Is it because of tunnel regulations? Or just because of the London-Brussels/Paris Eurostar connections making it redundant.
British border regulations are probably the biggest obstacle now, with the sleeper operator needing to pay for border checks at some station and agree to return unauthorised passengers. Other sleepers have relaxations such as allowing checks between stations that reportedtly the UK does not allow.

There is currently no sleeper stock capable of using the tunnel and HS1 (which is bigger than the old lines, so could take couchette cars that won't fit smaller UK lines, but the line tilts so much trains have to run fast or you would slide to the end of the bed) but I expect that could be overcome if it was financially worthwhile.
Thanks. That is interesting. I thought the border checks would just use the same arrangement that currently operates at St Pancras. I guess you are assuming that other stations would be en route, assuming one could board south of London.

Regarding the latter statement, this (finance) seems to be the moot point. As well, at the moment there seems to be a green appetite, but in a couple of months, everybody could be back on Ryan Air and co, and the whole thing becomes a distant pipe dream. But at least there is the Oostende/Brussels proposal. This has still has the option that one could leave the UK in the morning, providing they can get to Dover early, and be on an overnight train to central Europe for the next day.
Jdsk
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Re: New Proposed Sleeper Service

Post by Jdsk »

glucas wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 9:52am Thanks. It looks like this has been in the news recently:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... e-on-track

Nothing about bike carriage though.
I think that's the same article that was linked upthread.

And there's also some links to the likely rolling stock.

Jonathan
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