Cycle Travel Question

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
chris_suffolk
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Joined: 18 Oct 2012, 10:01pm

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by chris_suffolk »

Hi,

So this track won't load on my Garmin. After I select the track, it shows the track as a map, and I then press 'GO' to actually follow it. At this point I get

'Loading track with elevation from the map' and the eTrex hangs, never coming back from this message, I have to turn it off to get out.

Saved as 'Framlingham_Bildeston' on my account 'chris_suffolk'

Thanks

Chris

PS it's NOT a track points limit thing that I can see, as I have another track, from another web-site, with 4600 track points, and it loads fine.
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 3:35pm It tries to minimise turns at the same time as picking quieter routes - obviously it doesn't always get it right, but much of this is because there isn't much data on what's a quiet route and what isn't in urban areas. If you have a particular example in mind let me know.
Thanks, but it seemed a general feature that in urban areas ct would me along tiny sections of consecutive residental streets when I wanted to stay on the main route to simplify navigation and avoid having to keep rejoining at give ways. I havent tried it for approx a month though...
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Richard Fairhurst
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Joined: 2 Mar 2008, 4:57pm
Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

chris_suffolk wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 4:40pm'Loading track with elevation from the map' and the eTrex hangs, never coming back from this message, I have to turn it off to get out.
Ah, we've had this one previously (page 55). That's Garmin being dilatory in working out the elevation for the track.

If you make sure the elevation display is on-screen when you download the GPX from cycle.travel, then cycle.travel will include the elevation in the GPX file, and Garmin won't need to fetch it.
SA_SA_SA wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 6:03pmThanks, but it seemed a general feature that in urban areas ct would me along tiny sections of consecutive residental streets when I wanted to stay on the main route to simplify navigation and avoid having to keep rejoining at give ways. I havent tried it for approx a month though...
I can't help if you don't give me an example I'm afraid. :(
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chris_suffolk
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Joined: 18 Oct 2012, 10:01pm

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by chris_suffolk »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 7:23pm
chris_suffolk wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 4:40pm'Loading track with elevation from the map' and the eTrex hangs, never coming back from this message, I have to turn it off to get out.
Ah, we've had this one previously (page 55). That's Garmin being dilatory in working out the elevation for the track.

If you make sure the elevation display is on-screen when you download the GPX from cycle.travel, then cycle.travel will include the elevation in the GPX file, and Garmin won't need to fetch it.
Just tried that, and seems (from my one try) to fix it - thanks.
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RickH
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Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by RickH »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 7:23pm]I can't help if you don't give me an example I'm afraid. :(
Here are a couple of example from up this way

Following the A578. This adds 0.6 mile to a 1.1 mile stretch, that I do regularly, if you stay on the main road. It substitutes 1 mini roundabout for 2 right turns & 3 give ways.

Following the A573. This one starts by taking you along a couple of back streets that appear to now be gated (I was expecting cobbled "backs" - OSM probably could do with an update). It has a couple of instances of making you take a right turn to leave the main road, round the back roads before wanting you do another right turn back onto the main road a few hundred yards further on.

I tend to just add extra points to get the route I want. I think my record is 27 extra points in about 4 miles to get north-south across Warrington quickly rather than "prettily". But I will spare you that. :lol:

Having said all this CT is very much my preferred route planner. It is just worth checking closely for such wobbles in urban ateas. :D
matt_twam_asi
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Joined: 29 Apr 2008, 10:56am
Location: West Sussex

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by matt_twam_asi »

Hi Richard,

Can you take a look at this route as I wonder if the routing around access=private needs to be tweaked? https://cycle.travel/map/journey/229426
The default goes through two sets of gates marked private and through a private cycle path in a school. It should really route to the south.
Richard Fairhurst wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 7:23pm]I can't help if you don't give me an example I'm afraid. :(
In Horsham the router seems to hate Queen Street and Brighton Road. It's not that bad!
Richard Fairhurst
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Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

matt_twam_asi wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 10:01pm Hi Richard,

Can you take a look at this route as I wonder if the routing around access=private needs to be tweaked? https://cycle.travel/map/journey/229426
The default goes through two sets of gates marked private and through a private cycle path in a school. It should really route to the south.
Yep - you've still got "bicycle=designated" on the path. That will override the "access=private", because very often people use a combination of tags like that to mean "no cars, but bikes are allowed". If you remove the "bicycle=designated" then cycle.travel will avoid it as it should (after the next update).
matt_twam_asi wrote: 10 Jun 2021, 10:01pm In Horsham the router seems to hate Queen Street and Brighton Road. It's not that bad!
I think it's taking that from the DfT traffic data for the road - same with RickH's example. They're both pretty busy roads with cars and cycle.travel's preference is more or less correlated with that, though it is more forgiving of urban areas (and especially of 20mph limits, which sadly aren't in force in these cases). I might be able to make a few slight adjustments and I'll look into it a bit more. The challenge is that making it more tolerant of busy roads in general could make it less likely to choose quiet lanes in general, and that would be a great shame.

Really I'd suggest using the "Go direct" option between two via points in this case - obviously it won't 100% follow the line of the road, but if you know you're just following the same A road across town, that shouldn't matter. Or lobby your local council to install a 20mph limit. ;)
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matt_twam_asi
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Joined: 29 Apr 2008, 10:56am
Location: West Sussex

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by matt_twam_asi »

Thanks Richard on both points.
Richard Fairhurst wrote: 11 Jun 2021, 10:41am Yep - you've still got "bicycle=designated" on the path. That will override the "access=private", because very often people use a combination of tags like that to mean "no cars, but bikes are allowed". If you remove the "bicycle=designated" then cycle.travel will avoid it as it should (after the next update).
What would you recommend for "access is private, but the school's pupils are allowed to ride bikes on this way". bicycle=private? highway=cycleway + access=private?
It may be a moot point as I'm not sure there's anything on the ground that explicitly states the students can cycle on the path. I'll check later.
Richard Fairhurst wrote: 11 Jun 2021, 10:41am Really I'd suggest using the "Go direct" option between two via points in this case - obviously it won't 100% follow the line of the road, but if you know you're just following the same A road across town, that shouldn't matter. Or lobby your local council to install a 20mph limit. ;)
Fair enough and it's not a massive pain to re-route. It's unfortunate that the DfT data doesn't have a metric for average speed as I'd guess it wouldn't be much above 20-30 until the road leaves Horsham. Car users are prioritised above all others in Horsham, but we have a new councillor after the local elections so I'll have a go at pushing him on more 20mph zones. :)
Richard Fairhurst
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Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

matt_twam_asi wrote: 11 Jun 2021, 12:35pm What would you recommend for "access is private, but the school's pupils are allowed to ride bikes on this way". bicycle=private? highway=cycleway + access=private?
Either of those would work, I think. To be honest I personally wouldn't worry about private access arrangements within a school - I'd probably just put "access=private" and leave it at that.
matt_twam_asi wrote: 11 Jun 2021, 12:35pm Fair enough and it's not a massive pain to re-route. It's unfortunate that the DfT data doesn't have a metric for average speed as I'd guess it wouldn't be much above 20-30 until the road leaves Horsham. Car users are prioritised above all others in Horsham, but we have a new councillor after the local elections so I'll have a go at pushing him on more 20mph zones. :)
If you have a local Community Speedwatch group then these are good people to get on board - they might already have data on local average speeds (it's a lot easier to get a 20mph limit if the average speed of traffic is already lowish). We finally got ours last year but it took a lot of badgering the county council!
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Pendodave
Posts: 165
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Pendodave »

Hi there,
I'm just trying to download a small GPX (turnings only) file from the 'more download options' tab.
I'm sure that this worked a few days ago, but although I don't get an error message, it doesn't seem to do anything today. All the other options on that menu (eg. KML) seem to work.
Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks,
David.
Richard Fairhurst
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Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Can you give a link to the journey you're trying?
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geocycle
Posts: 1874
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 9:46am

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by geocycle »

Not sure whether this is the right place or how to fix it. I used cycle.travel on a recent ride through Dent with the on road option switched on. Cycle.travel or the mapping behind it thinks the cobbles through the middle of the village are offroad and it sends me on a long detour.
Pendodave
Posts: 165
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Pendodave »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 2:24pm Can you give a link to the journey you're trying?
Yes, it's this one.
https://cycle.travel/map/journey/231113
I just tested the route I used the other day and it worked just fine. I wonder if it's anything to do with the mix of roads/paths?
Thanks for looking at it.
Pendodave
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Pendodave »

Pendodave wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 2:49pm
Richard Fairhurst wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 2:24pm Can you give a link to the journey you're trying?
Yes, it's this one.
https://cycle.travel/map/journey/231113
I just tested the route I used the other day and it worked just fine. I wonder if it's anything to do with the mix of roads/paths?
Thanks for looking at it.
Now that you've suggested that it might be route specific, I've had a closer look. There is a little (accidental) wiggle around via point 12, which if removed (by moving the via point to the nearby red bordered track which it should be on) seems to facilitate the download I'm after.
Apologies for sending you on a slight wild goose chase, though I'm curious about what would have caused this small diversion to muck up the download, which still works fine as a full fat GPX file.
Apologies to all non-participants for spamming this ever so useful thread with my problems!
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Ah, I see the issue - a little edge case in the code. Should be fixed now.
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