Europe 2021

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ANTONISH
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by ANTONISH »

Came back from France yesterday.
We only had paper copies of NHS covid status (double vaccinated).
This was accepted in every case - some by a swift perusal - others by dubiety and appeal to what looked like a management chain the most being three individuals - understandable when they are used to scanning a QR code.
We got the pre return rapid covid test - quick and efficient at a pharmacy.
Had to submit pre return passenger details to P&O.
The worst part was the UK passenger locator "form" - a misnomer IMO because it's not paper but must be filled on line (unlike the French Sur l'honneur which can be downloaded and signed and dated as appropriate).
The internet connection I had on holiday was a bit shaky (and I'm not very good at touchscreens ) so I asked my son to do it - of course the UK has to be awkward and insists that you cannot fill in the "form" until you are within the 48hr window - he tried to fill it in two days before the return date but at 10 in the morning and not the actual 1800 hrs and was prevented from filling the "form" - he therefore put the return time at 10-00 - and was able to complete it.
At Calais all went OK until I had to show the PLF ( The only document for which I had no paper copy) on my Garmin J3 - fortunately they weren't busy as it took a few minutes of passing the phone backwards and forwards at the P&O check in.
There didn't seem any problem with the time stated on the document.
All OK at Dover.
I'm looking forward to doing my day two covid test tomorrow - the only difficulty I can see is that the self test pack doesn't seem to carry any link to our online identity number - doubtless all will be revealed. :(
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by mjr »

willem jongman wrote: 26 Sep 2021, 10:13am As for the French situation, see here: https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/comin ... cedure-for It says explicitly that the recognition only applies to French territory.
"La page que vous essayez de consulter n’est pas accessible"
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willem jongman
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by willem jongman »

It is visible on my brand new Windows 10 computer.
Last edited by willem jongman on 27 Sep 2021, 10:13am, edited 1 time in total.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by PDQ Mobile »

The link works on my old device, albeit with a "maybe not secure" warning.
I get the same from some weather forecasting sites!! :roll:

It states:- "In France, the COVID certificate is issued to people who have tested negative or who have been fully vaccinated with one of the vaccines recognized by the European Medicines Agency or one of the equivalents to these vaccines.
In order to facilitate the stay of non-European tourists in France, the Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs set up a specific mechanism for issuing a COVID vaccine certificate of equivalence which is valid on French territory..............."

<snip>
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by mjr »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 10:12am The link works on my old device, albeit with a "maybe not secure" warning.
Yes, it seems to be back online now.
It states:- "In France, the COVID certificate is issued to people who have tested negative or who have been fully vaccinated with one of the vaccines recognized by the European Medicines Agency or one of the equivalents to these vaccines.
In order to facilitate the stay of non-European tourists in France, the Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs set up a specific mechanism for issuing a COVID vaccine certificate of equivalence which is valid on French territory..............."

<snip>
Yes, the page seems to be about some online-approved "COVID vaccine certificate of equivalence" for countries not in the EU or UK systems, which seems rather besides any point that was being discussed.

Work here is going better than hoped so maybe I will find time to test the French app out a bit this week.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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willem jongman
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by willem jongman »

This is the follow up page: https://www.demarches-simplifiees.fr/co ... -etrangers It is clear that this is for a French pass that is the equilivalent of the EU pass for use in France.
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by mjr »

willem jongman wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 1:05pm This is the follow up page: https://www.demarches-simplifiees.fr/co ... -etrangers It is clear that this is for a French pass that is the equilivalent of the EU pass for use in France.
Which also makes it clear that it is a page about the equivalence certificate, which does not apply to people vaccinated by NHS England:
"You can apply for a COVID vaccine certificate of equivalence if you meet the following conditions: You are from a country which is not one of the following countries: [...] or United Kingdom (England and Wales only)*;"

Please stop posting irrelevant links. I will check properly when I finish work and DIY, if no-one else has.
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willem jongman
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by willem jongman »

Sorry I missed the last clause. But please do not continue to suggest that the NHS certificate, however good it may be (and I am sure it is), will allow you to get into Dutch bars, restaurants etc. It will not, as the Dutch Public Health Authority has said explicitly. And as for Dutch infections, hospital admissions etc, see here: https://coronadashboard.government.nl/
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by mjr »

willem jongman wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 3:46pm Sorry I missed the last clause. But please do not continue to suggest that the NHS certificate, however good it may be (and I am sure it is), will allow you to get into Dutch bars, restaurants etc.
I have never said it will, so could not "continue". I wondered whether a French certificate would. Maybe that is the misunderstanding leading to posting many irrelevant links and unverifiable guesses.

I do also wonder what the technical difference is. Past UK QR certificates have been RFC7515 JSON Web Signature (JWS) base64 coded data and I suspect this one is too. At a glance, https://ec.europa.eu/health/ehealth/covid-19_en didn't make me think it contains anything that is necessarily missing from the UK, so I wonder if the lack of interoperability is mainly administrative, with the EU expecting the UK to apply.
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willem jongman
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by willem jongman »

I am sure the problems are not about the digital format. The accepting country has to be sure that the whole chain from vaccination/testing/recovery is robust and not prone to fraud and this has to be documented. I am sure the NHS could do that but the Dutch Public Health Authority said it had not yet done so but expects this to be done soon.
So what remains is the question whether the French acceptance of the NHS QR code commits the other EU countries as well, which would be odd, given that there is an EU procedure for precisely that. The French government information talks about 'in France' on a number of occasions but does not explicitly say 'not in France'. However the architecture of the EU Certificate allows for both a national and an EU wide level, and I have to press a button on mine to generate either the Dutch or the EU wide code.
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by mjr »

willem jongman wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 5:16pm I am sure the problems are not about the digital format. The accepting country has to be sure that the whole chain from vaccination/testing/recovery is robust and not prone to fraud and this has to be documented. I am sure the NHS could do that but the Dutch Public Health Authority said it had not yet done so but expects this to be done soon. [...]
I expect NHS England has done so but has not bothered to demonstrate it to the Dutch Public Health Authority or whatever EU agency yet. I expect it will happen after a bit of horse trading and UK posturing on the two Unions being treated as equals.

Semi-unrelatedly, it seems that the Dutch do not require their system to be secure and robust, with CoronaCheck collapsing on Sunday when its servers were attacked. It sounds like the app contacts a server before it will create a QR code, which seems like a scalability design flaw and likely a "phone home" privacy leak, revealing to the government and some of its suppliers where you are when you want to show a QR code. https://nltimes.nl/2021/09/26/saturday- ... m-resolved
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simonhill
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by simonhill »

Why would the UK govt worry about getting the NHS app approved. The longer the delay, the more people who have to get PCR tests from all the companies set up to fleece the public.

Even the doing away of the PCR on Day 2, is delayed till mid/late Oct to let all the companies use up their overpriced stock, sorry I mean to get ready for the cheaper LFT tests.

Bas****s!
willem jongman
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by willem jongman »

There were two problems with the Dutch system on Saturday. First, there were some DDos attacks and second many people were using the system for the first time when they had to connect to the system to download their status. The problems did not last long and did not repeat themselves the next day. The design of the system is precisely to give people the utmost privacy. Neither your data nor your location are stored centrally. See here for the privacy rules: https://coronacheck.nl/en/privacy
st599_uk
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by st599_uk »

mjr wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 6:06pm
willem jongman wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 5:16pm I am sure the problems are not about the digital format. The accepting country has to be sure that the whole chain from vaccination/testing/recovery is robust and not prone to fraud and this has to be documented. I am sure the NHS could do that but the Dutch Public Health Authority said it had not yet done so but expects this to be done soon. [...]
I expect NHS England has done so but has not bothered to demonstrate it to the Dutch Public Health Authority or whatever EU agency yet. I expect it will happen after a bit of horse trading and UK posturing on the two Unions being treated as equals.

Semi-unrelatedly, it seems that the Dutch do not require their system to be secure and robust, with CoronaCheck collapsing on Sunday when its servers were attacked. It sounds like the app contacts a server before it will create a QR code, which seems like a scalability design flaw and likely a "phone home" privacy leak, revealing to the government and some of its suppliers where you are when you want to show a QR code. https://nltimes.nl/2021/09/26/saturday- ... m-resolved
The NHS app uses a QR code digitally signed by the NHS private key. They then have to distribute the NHS public key to test the QR code is valid. So the NHS app also has to phone home to create the signature.

The EU app can apply non-EU public keys - Israel, Turkey, Panama, Switzerland, Norway and others have all integrated their key system in to the EU app.
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2021

Post by mjr »

willem jongman wrote: 27 Sep 2021, 7:05pmNeither your data nor your location are stored centrally. See here for the privacy rules: https://coronacheck.nl/en/privacy
Which, contrary to the above, says user location (IP address) is stored for up to seven days and can be processed "for management and security purposes" which is not defined further, which I'm sure delights the security services.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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