Maybe you've read my other posts - I just completed a 7 day ride from Ireland back to England via Wales. It was great! I bought a 54cm 26" LHT in Ireland (online) and did very little other research. I think the bike has been great but truth be told I often feel like the bars are a bit far away and I feel like I'm perched quite towards the front of the saddle and experienced some discomfort in the hands. Before I left I moved the saddle forward and put a BBB adjustable rising stem. This helped a lot but I still feel like there just a little to far out. I was thinking of putting on something like the following;
With the really narrow stem and the extra height this should just push me back a bit in the saddle. I was just wondering what you guys thought of this and would there be any serious issues affecting control or performance/stiffness etc?
A shorter stem makes the bike a bit more "nippy" at the front, while a longer one gives more stability. All has to be done within a certain amount. On a 54cm there shouldn't be need for more than 100-110mm or less than 70-80mm stem, on average.
The very short stem and extender you've posted will make a dramatic change in the riding position, well over what the bike was designed for. Something is not right there, either with the sizing, or with your body points of contact and joints. It seems that you need a very upright position, do you experience fatigue in the lower back, or the arms?
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are...
To remove weight from the hands you need to position the saddle so that your centre of gravity is in line with or behind the vertical line through the bottom bracket. This usually involves moving the saddle backwards from the 'kops' position. You may also find that moving the cleats to the further backward position on your shoes helps. You should only adjust the stem length once you have the correct saddle position. A clue as to whether your saddle is in the right place is to see if you can ride with just one finger on the bars and without dramatically increasing the tension in your core muscles to prevent you tipping forward.
Lots of discussions on saddle position elsewhere in this forum.
Moving the saddle foward might actually be part of the problem, as it tends to psuh your weight forward onto your hands. It may seem counterintuitive, and it is a common mistake.
Set your saddle according to KOPS (knee over pedal spindle) and make minor adjustments as needed for saddle comfort, then set your handlebars according to where you want them. It may help you figure what that is, using an adjustable stem.
I shortened my stem to the exact same one you have shown above. What I will say it has made NO DIFFERENCE WHAT SO EVER to the twitchiness. Loaded or otherwise. Go for it. I ALSO swapped out the supplied 'laid back' seat post for a more upright one (also Deda) and moved the saddle forward.
It has been suggested in other threads that the DT & LHT have top tubes that are too long in relation to size of bike. But you can make the above adjustments.
With the same changes you are planning, my Surly DT now fits beautifully. Maybe as I get longer in the tooth I might bring the bars up, as for now I like the bars at a similar height to the seat. A bit more aggressive than a conventional tourer, but there you go. Each to their own.
If you have too much weight on your hands, you need to move the saddle BACK. With an in-line seatpost and a short short stem, you will still have too much weight on your hands.
Sidestepping: I wonder how many of us are influenced by cultural norms? Here(GB)pictures seem to show tourers on drop bars,positons rather semi-racing like. Over yonder(Germany,say),the tourers seem to have flat or raised bars,adopted style of riding somewhat more upright than us British folk.I know what I should look like on my bike,but my bicycle set-up isn't what I seem to think it should be. Confusing,annoying at times. Still,I find the continental style of riding suits me and any tries at adopting a faster-style of touring would have me k-n-kered. Vanity! I sometimes still want to adopt the more British style o-riding I could do when younger without the changes in my body that age has brought. I know some o the old road men can do it. Mind you,some of 'em are bent over double when off bike and walking! (exaggerated for effect)
tyreon wrote:Sidestepping: I wonder how many of us are influenced by cultural norms? Here(GB)pictures seem to show tourers on drop bars,positons rather semi-racing like. Over yonder(Germany,say),the tourers seem to have flat or raised bars,adopted style of riding somewhat more upright than us British folk.I know what I should look like on my bike,but my bicycle set-up isn't what I seem to think it should be. Confusing,annoying at times. Still,I find the continental style of riding suits me and any tries at adopting a faster-style of touring would have me k-n-kered. Vanity! I sometimes still want to adopt the more British style o-riding I could do when younger without the changes in my body that age has brought. I know some o the old road men can do it. Mind you,some of 'em are bent over double when off bike and walking! (exaggerated for effect)
Clever. Having lived in different parts of the world I find in Britain, people will follow the norm like sheep. Even if it is at one's physical expense. I saw a similar trend in the States. It's our culture. The Germans and Dutch care less about what they look like. Just look at the bikes. I like their directness.
I can't see myself keeping drops on my tourer for more than another 10 years. While I'm young, in reasonable condition and preferring a slightly more aggressive set up, drops work. However I have my eyes on butterflies or Surly's new Jones-style bars
I've put a very short stem on a tourer to solve the same problem, and it handles as well as it did with a longer stem. That is the cheapest and simplest solution. My short stem (about 90mm, if I remember correctly) was tested thoroughly last summer with a 50mph descent of Mont Ventoux, where the bike handled like a dream.
Thanks all - though I must admit I don't understand about moving the seat backwards? ... But I'll keep experimenting! But either way I did a 100 mile day and was fairly comfortable at the end of it so I wonder if some of my reckoning has been influenced by the 'getting used to' of long range bicycle touring rather than a poor or incorrect bike setup.
longhaultrucking wrote:Thanks all - though I must admit I don't understand about moving the seat backwards? ... But I'll keep experimenting! ......
Not much to understand, really. Try standing up straight and leaning forwards....pretty soon you will pitch forwards, because you will be out of balance. Try it again, sticking your bum out the back as you reach forwards, and you will find you stay in balance. Works on a bike, too......
Backside almost over the rear wheel axle.....
In balance......
Try it!
Anybody who thinks I am a follower of fashion is delusional.
I think the same through my experience with my knackered body. Set the seat level first then get someone to drop a plumb line from the front of your knee down to your pedal, it should be above the axle. Then try it for a while and think about stem length and handlebar height. If you eventually go for a more upright position you can get away with tilting the seat up at the front a bit. I'm sure as you ride more your body will get more flexible too which may change things. I'm going back over to the "Forest of Dean" today and taking my MTB that I havn't rode for 18 months. I had to change the stem on it for a longer one as I'm now more flexible after being stretched out on road bikes for a while.
I was once given the advice to support myself using the core muscles to reduce the weight on the bars. It's easier said than done, but I think it's right.
Also avoid gripping the bars too tight as you climb (or is that just me?).
As far as the advice to move the saddle backwards: it helps if you grow longer arms.
If we refer to the photos provided by 531Colin we can easily talk about centre of gravity and kops.
Kops has no physical basis but over the years has been found to be a very good rule of thumb for getting your saddle into a good starting position from which you can then make fine tuning adjustments. For Kops a plumb line from the bony lump below your keecap (it goes kneescap, soft bit, then bony lump) should lie cross the end of the pedal spindle when your feet are in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions.
For centre of gravity considerations you draw a vertical line through the centre of the bottom bracket. If there is more body weight on the left of the line (based on 531Colin's pictures) than on the right then the weight difference produces a pivoting effect that has your body tending to rotate anticlockwise around the bottom bracket and thus you will be sat firmly on the saddle and the only weight your arms have to deal with is their own weight.
If, however, there is more body weight on the right of the line than the left then the rotational force is clockwise, tipping you off the saddle so you now have to resist that force by pushing back with your arms. This leads to sore/numb hands, and wrist, neck and shoulder ache.
This is why positioning the saddle has to be done before giving any consideration to the length of the stem and why your arms should be doing nothing more than resting on the handlebars.
