High centre of gravity for touring

uppadine · Post by **uppadine** » 16 Dec 2016, 5:25pm

I'm a fan of the Arkel Tailrider bag and in general believe that bags are better lower down. I just can't believe that a bike can be stable loaded like this, https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bikepacking-bags.html or am I just getting old? The bottom image especially.

khain · Post by **khain** » 16 Dec 2016, 5:29pm

Why not? The weight is in the same place a rider would be.

You're not talking much weight anyway. I think the low-centre-of-gravity aspect of panniers is less important than some make out.

mnichols · Post by **mnichols** » 16 Dec 2016, 6:51pm

I favour panniers for touring on the road, but when you are off road then can snag on bushes, rocks, etc or get dragged through puddles and streams. So the idea is that for off road touring you hold your luggage higher and out of the way

It also allows you to tour if your bike won't take a rack, and if you are travelling fast and light it can be more aerodynamic

I have both setups. I prefer panniers, but their is definitely a place for bike packing

irc · Post by **irc** » 16 Dec 2016, 7:45pm

IMO it depends on the weight. Sleeping bag and a bit of clothing sure. Heavy items it looks like a lot of strain on the saddle.

NATURAL ANKLING · Post by **NATURAL ANKLING** » 16 Dec 2016, 7:51pm

Hi,
All metal frames and seat posts it looks like?
I have a bike well several with no lugs and am thinking on best way, but prefer a bit lower on the pack so mine will be seat post mounted with some other struts? Probably homemade.

Heltor Chasca · Post by **Heltor Chasca** » 16 Dec 2016, 8:32pm

You won't load a seat pack up to more than about 5kg (fairly typical manufacturer weight recommendation iirc when I was shopping for one) so it's ok.

The 2 heaviest points on a human body is the head and hips according to my climbing coach from years ago. I'm sure we haven't evolved since then [emoji6]The bag sits at about hip height.

rualexander · Post by **rualexander** » 16 Dec 2016, 8:39pm

Folks have been using saddlebags and barbags for years, this is no different, just an updated modernised twist on it.

Tangled Metal · Post by **Tangled Metal** » 16 Dec 2016, 9:42pm

Google old cycle tourists. I bet you'll see photos of more than a few with bedrolls on the handlebars and saddlebags. Perhaps even stuff within the frame. Nothing much is truly new!

531colin · Post by **531colin** » 16 Dec 2016, 10:12pm

There is a big difference between putting your bodyweight on the saddle and putting it on the pedals.
How high your luggage is fixed is secondary to that.
However, if you don't want shimmy (and you don't!) its best to keep as much weight as you can in front of the back wheel axle, lower than your saddle, and not flapping around.

pete75 · Post by **pete75** » 16 Dec 2016, 11:12pm

uppadine wrote:I'm a fan of the Arkel Tailrider bag and in general believe that bags are better lower down. I just can't believe that a bike can be stable loaded like this, https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bikepacking-bags.html or am I just getting old? The bottom image especially.

Nothing intrinsically wrong with it and used for a specific purpose. The saddle pack looks remarkably similar to the Carradice SQR Tour. Main difference is the Carradice is made of tougher, longer lasting material, holds a litre more and costs 85 quid as opposed to the Arkels 189.99.

mercalia · Post by **mercalia** » 17 Dec 2016, 7:51am

irrespective of riding, a high load makes the bike unstable when handling when not cycling, inclined to want to fall over? and harder to push?

Heltor Chasca · Post by **Heltor Chasca** » 17 Dec 2016, 9:02am

rualexander wrote:Folks have been using saddlebags and barbags for years, this is no different, just an updated modernised twist on it.

That's right. My barbag has never been heavier than 2.5kg and the seat pack 5kg. The seat bags will evolve. They are handy having experienced touring off road along washed out gullies. Panniers don't fit [emoji53]and it's a pain taking your luggage off and doing shuttles. I don't believe the seat packs are perfect yet as they all wiggle a bit. Someone will crack it soon.

I've seen a few Audaxers using seat packs instead of rack packs. It's a good look.

nmnm · Post by **nmnm** » 17 Dec 2016, 8:38pm

As I see it, if you try to balance a pool cue upright in the palm of your hand, it's much harder with the thick end at the bottom. Balance is maintained by moving the base point around, same with cycling. I carried a big bag of clothes on my crossbar once, was struck by the stability when moving (not so great when stationary!).

landsurfer · Post by **landsurfer** » 17 Dec 2016, 8:47pm

531colin wrote:There is a big difference between putting your bodyweight on the saddle and putting it on the pedals.
How high your luggage is fixed is secondary to that.
However, if you don't want shimmy (and you don't!) its best to keep as much weight as you can in front of the back wheel axle, lower than your saddle, and not flapping around.

So that would be the rider.... and any mass behind the axle is off set by the mass in front of it.
Surely to cause shimmy the masses would have to be out of balance.
Mass behind the axle => the rider ?

pwa · Post by **pwa** » 17 Dec 2016, 10:50pm

pete75 wrote:
uppadine wrote:I'm a fan of the Arkel Tailrider bag and in general believe that bags are better lower down. I just can't believe that a bike can be stable loaded like this, https://www.arkel-od.com/en/bikepacking-bags.html or am I just getting old? The bottom image especially.

Nothing intrinsically wrong with it and used for a specific purpose. The saddle pack looks remarkably similar to the Carradice SQR Tour. Main difference is the Carradice is made of tougher, longer lasting material, holds a litre more and costs 85 quid as opposed to the Arkels 189.99.

I gave up using an SQR Tour about 10 years ago because it resulted in a wobble at high speed. Too much weight in the wrong place, and with an ability to move just a fraction from side to side to set off a tremor down the bike. I went back to a small pannier and the problem went away.

I have also used Carradice rack top bags and they are rock solid on a wider rack (Tortec Ultralite) and that inability to sway means there is no handling problem. I think it is the wobble of bags sticking out behind the saddle that creates problems, more than the height above the ground.

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