Electric assisted trailer : Is it cheating ?
- ChrisOntLancs
- Posts: 527
- Joined: 20 Oct 2016, 9:47pm
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
if you're using it to compensate your weight to power ratio that's fine, or if you're using it to get the job done that's also fine. you're just banned from impressing people, that's all.
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
Plenty of people are impressed by taking a motorbike on tour, or a Landcruiser 4x4 even.
The motorised trailer probably will not have a significant effect on the effort required to do the tour.
Just as say if somebody offered me a four mile lift on the back of a pick-up at the end of a thousand mile tour, I would have to refuse to complete the tour under my own steam. Even though 4 miles is insignificant and the remainder of the tour is "impressive" in its own right.
The motorised trailer probably will not have a significant effect on the effort required to do the tour.
Just as say if somebody offered me a four mile lift on the back of a pick-up at the end of a thousand mile tour, I would have to refuse to complete the tour under my own steam. Even though 4 miles is insignificant and the remainder of the tour is "impressive" in its own right.
Yma o Hyd
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
DarkNewt wrote:Hi RickH,
I have a single wheel trailer that would fit a lab in, it's basically new only been out on a few trips, not motorised but would be glad to donate if you want it, collect free or pay for postage only condition is send me a few pics of the lab in it
That's very kind of you. I will consult & see what my stoker thinks.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
- ChrisOntLancs
- Posts: 527
- Joined: 20 Oct 2016, 9:47pm
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
meic wrote:Plenty of people are impressed by taking a motorbike on tour, or a Landcruiser 4x4 even.
The motorised trailer probably will not have a significant effect on the effort required to do the tour.
Just as say if somebody offered me a four mile lift on the back of a pick-up at the end of a thousand mile tour, I would have to refuse to complete the tour under my own steam. Even though 4 miles is insignificant and the remainder of the tour is "impressive" in its own right.
that all depends on whether you consider 9,996 miles to be impressive
i was trying to be funny, as if OP wasn't allowed to take credit
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
i was trying to be funny, as if OP wasn't allowed to take credit
I know but opinions like mine about "purity of the cause" are pretty frowned upon by many in the forum and seen as elitist and exclusive, even when we are only setting standards for our own personal ideals. One has to be very careful when expressing politically incorrect opinions and the humour has to be very subtle.
Yma o Hyd
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
I actually think there is a broad consensus on the forum as to what is acceptable or not - our basic ethos. There has to be a consensus IMV or the forum couldn't function effectively - you would constantly have to to justify your basic assumptions just to make a point. So cycling is good, cars are bad, in very simplistic terms. We argue about things within the already agreed context of cycling being a good thing.
However, technology moves on and occasionally upsets the consensus. Electric power is the latest of these but I think potentially the most disturbing. Up until now there has been a clear definition that separates cycling from everything else - it involves a machine, it's human powered and it goes somewhere (or helps in some way towards that). Small electric motors are now available and a practical proposition for bikes. The line now is very blurred. I think electric motors cross over that line (because they decrease the need for exertion) but I can understand why many people would disagree with that.
The OP has really set the cat amongst the pidgeons. There is obviously something that makes him feel uneasy (he has said so) and yet it's also quite minor and very practical. But maybe the OP feels (as I do) that a line in the sand has been crossed, the Rubicon forded and the central idea of cycling tainted. I don't sense this with any other level of support - even taking your bike by car to the start of a ride or support cars on LEJOG for instance. From what they say on this forum, people are taking up various positions for a variety of reasons on electric support. But I would maintain that philosphically (even though perhaps not practically) there's something very important going on here. Remember, the OP didn't ask "Will this work?"; he asked "Is this right?".
However, technology moves on and occasionally upsets the consensus. Electric power is the latest of these but I think potentially the most disturbing. Up until now there has been a clear definition that separates cycling from everything else - it involves a machine, it's human powered and it goes somewhere (or helps in some way towards that). Small electric motors are now available and a practical proposition for bikes. The line now is very blurred. I think electric motors cross over that line (because they decrease the need for exertion) but I can understand why many people would disagree with that.
The OP has really set the cat amongst the pidgeons. There is obviously something that makes him feel uneasy (he has said so) and yet it's also quite minor and very practical. But maybe the OP feels (as I do) that a line in the sand has been crossed, the Rubicon forded and the central idea of cycling tainted. I don't sense this with any other level of support - even taking your bike by car to the start of a ride or support cars on LEJOG for instance. From what they say on this forum, people are taking up various positions for a variety of reasons on electric support. But I would maintain that philosphically (even though perhaps not practically) there's something very important going on here. Remember, the OP didn't ask "Will this work?"; he asked "Is this right?".
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
horizon wrote:The OP has really set the cat amongst the pidgeons. There is obviously something that makes him feel uneasy (he has said so) and yet it's also quite minor and very practical. But maybe the OP feels (as I do) that a line in the sand has been crossed, the Rubicon forded and the central idea of cycling tainted.
Horizon, I couldn't have put it better myself, my uneasiness was simply I don't feel like I would have "done the deed" with a power assist hence I am not going to do it. But the operating factor here is "I" it's an opinion, if I don't feel I did it how can anyone else.. like the old saying you have to love yourself before you can expect anyone else to love you
That said, when it helps inclusivity i.e. others who otherwise wouldn't be able to get in on the act or adventure then I am all for it!
hat's off Horizon to a well written argument (bowing)!
Currently planning my next adventure and trying to get over two operations in 6 months but still going strong!
email: newt@systems-engineer.info web: thedarknewt.blogspot.co.uk
email: newt@systems-engineer.info web: thedarknewt.blogspot.co.uk
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
meic wrote:If someone were to consider this cheating I wonder if they have ever caught a train/bus/ferry during their tour and therefore considered that they had cheated.
Certainly with the exception of the ferry (unless there was a road option available) I would consider that I had cheated by doing that, if I was to claim I cycled from A-B in x days but had in fact used some motorised assistance in the form of bus and train.
The ferry is a bit different in that it is taken for granted that one didnt actually cycle across any seas that need crossing.
I often utilise powered transport on my tours - might be to get me to/from a region, or to transit a boring/industrial region, or get me to my destination after a delay/mechanical. I certainly don't consider it cheating, I wouldn't claim to have ridden those miles - if I say a tour was 1000km I mean on the bike - it could be twice that in terms of actual distance covered.
With regard to the powered trailer business, rather than electric wheelchairs, the Gemans, Dutch etc often use a standard chair with a single wheel 'tractor' unit which is controlled with a handlebar arrangement. Maybe that could be adapted?
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
silly idea just put an engine on the bike?
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
mercalia wrote:silly idea just put an engine on the bike?
as they say the only silly question is the one you don't ask!! I only considered it on the extrawheel for very long tours I definitely wouldn't want an electric bike as it would just seem pointless to me I like the exercise and pushing myself aspect I did once toy with the idea of a petrol bike to go to work on along the canals but likewise didn't in the end
Currently planning my next adventure and trying to get over two operations in 6 months but still going strong!
email: newt@systems-engineer.info web: thedarknewt.blogspot.co.uk
email: newt@systems-engineer.info web: thedarknewt.blogspot.co.uk
Re: Is it cheating - Opinions Please
Not cheating unless with the same load using panniers etc you didn't motorise.
However, possibly neither safe nor legal. Generally trailers trail while being towed for a reason. Otherwise could be a bit like trying to push a length of string. May be better motorising the bike as this is proven technology.
However, possibly neither safe nor legal. Generally trailers trail while being towed for a reason. Otherwise could be a bit like trying to push a length of string. May be better motorising the bike as this is proven technology.
Re: Electric assisted on trailer : Is it cheating ?
Having toured extensively with a trailer, and also been out with a concrete block in it just for the sheer training value, I wouldn't bother with electric assist.
Just get a lover set of gears and take your time up the hills.
Towing a trailer is no slower on the flat, and a bit quicker going down hills. Give yourself more time to brake, and take it easy.
Just get a lover set of gears and take your time up the hills.
Towing a trailer is no slower on the flat, and a bit quicker going down hills. Give yourself more time to brake, and take it easy.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Electric assisted on trailer : Is it cheating ?
Legal limitations?
I believe the maximum legal power allowed is 250 watts.
I would think that the power would be best applied to the bikes rear wheel as that would keep the handling about the same.
Problems are;
carrying the batteries and charger
recharging it after each days ride
any failure would mean lugging the extra weight around.
Personally I don't think the benefit is worth the cost, recharging hassle and possible reliability reduction.
I believe the maximum legal power allowed is 250 watts.
I would think that the power would be best applied to the bikes rear wheel as that would keep the handling about the same.
Problems are;
carrying the batteries and charger
recharging it after each days ride
any failure would mean lugging the extra weight around.
Personally I don't think the benefit is worth the cost, recharging hassle and possible reliability reduction.
Re: Electric assisted on trailer : Is it cheating ?
Legal Definitions.
That made me think.
There is a specific exemption to the general law on motorised vehicles that allows a cycle with a motor providing assistance within specified limits to legally not count as a motorised vehicle but as a pedal cycle.
I am unaware of any such exemption for trailers. Almost certain that no copper will give a damn unless the power assistance is ridiculous.
As for legally requiring a driving licence, I suspect not as it probably would not be classed as a legitimate vehicle who's use could be allowed by licence.
Though there was once a group for hand pulled electrical powered vehicles wasnt there? that comes pretty near.
That made me think.
There is a specific exemption to the general law on motorised vehicles that allows a cycle with a motor providing assistance within specified limits to legally not count as a motorised vehicle but as a pedal cycle.
I am unaware of any such exemption for trailers. Almost certain that no copper will give a damn unless the power assistance is ridiculous.
As for legally requiring a driving licence, I suspect not as it probably would not be classed as a legitimate vehicle who's use could be allowed by licence.
Though there was once a group for hand pulled electrical powered vehicles wasnt there? that comes pretty near.
Yma o Hyd
Re: Electric assisted on trailer : Is it cheating ?
There was a proprietary unit in the US called the Ride Kick
There are multiple reviews on line, and videos on YouTube
It will give you some ideas about the pros and cons of this type of trailer
There are multiple reviews on line, and videos on YouTube
It will give you some ideas about the pros and cons of this type of trailer